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FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

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Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#441

Post by kube-system »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #291
scarface_74 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because American public transit is so great and now you have to get up hours earlier and come home later - not great if you have kids or you actually want to spend time with your significant other. Also what happens when that cheap old car doesn’t start in the morning when you need to get to work or pick your kids up from day care/school or need to be home when they get off the bus? Where are you going to get the…

You present some very daunting problems that the young and working class have to deal with (I know, I was both of those decades ago and struggled myself). Credit to buy a new car though is still generally a bad solution. We should fix the other things you mentioned. I would like to see laws allowing extreme low-cost vehicles (equivalent to golf carts, I guess) allowed on designated roads. A special inexpensive insura…

> I would like to see laws allowing extreme low-cost vehicles (equivalent to golf carts, I guess) allowed on designated roads. A special inexpensive insurance proviso for them.

These already exist! You maybe haven't heard about them because they're largely a failure beyond niche applications. They're mostly used for things like hospitality shuttles, facility maintenance, meter maids, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_vehicle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_electric_vehicle

The problem is that they don't make sense for most people, e.g:

1. You can't operate them on high speed roads. The US has a lot of high speed roads, particularly in areas that are poorer.

2. They aren't cheaper than a used car. A street legal Cushman or GEM starts at about $16k. A brand new Nissan Versa is only about $1-2k more, is wildly better equipped, and has more accessible financing. Good $10k used cars are available on every street corner in every poor neighborhood with extremely accessible financing.

3. They are weird. It is much more socially acceptable to drive a similarly priced used car.

4. They lack features that used cars have. Many control cost by omitting basic features such as doors and climate control.

5. The places where you can use them (low speed neighborhood roads) are already more likely to be accessible by alternative means of transportation. (busses, bikes, walking)

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#442

Post by johnnyanmac »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #279
beowulfey wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't going to learn to be skeptical or think critically because we've been literally removing that from the curriculum in schools. How can someone be skeptical of something if they don't even know how to be skeptical? Social media runs rampant with a form of skepticism, but I would call that closer to paranoia than critical thinking, and I don't think it's really being helpful in the same way.

>> Social media runs rampant with a form of skepticism, but I would call that closer to paranoia than critical thinking For my generation this was always refered to as a "healthy skepticism", but lately I've noticed many don't necessarily see this as a good trait - an example: any sort of measured, full-picture response to the impact of AI on software development.

As usual, it's a spectrum. The pettiest example is one of Reddit, where you see some random cat video, and the comments all go "this is fake" or "this is posted by a bot" or "how could you do that, you're torturing the cat!".

1. They may all be true, but yiy gotta pick your battles at this point. If you think all of reddit is bots, what use is there complaining in every post

2. Healthy skepticism is supported by observation and findings. The internet as of late has grown lazy on that overall and people just throw out accusations without explanation. That definitely comes more off as paranoia at best, or bad faith at worst.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#443

Post by quickthrowman »

loeg wrote: post #11
ecshafer wrote: post #6

This would probably only affect the people with the worst credit scores I imagine. I just don't see a ton of 800+ credit score people deciding to spend 5 payments of $20 for a pair of $80 shoes.

Plenty of people with good credit use BNPL loans; they are offered on much higher cost items than $80.

1.5% back on the purchase via CC rewards beats earning 1% over 3 months (4% yield) in a HYSA every time, anyone using BNPL is using them suboptimally.

For a 3 month BNPL loan to be worth it, HYSA rates must be over 6%, and actually a bit more due to the time value of money; you get CC reward cash after the statement period but it takes 90 days (and up to ~120 days) to get three monthly interest payments.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#445

Post by mapt »

vdqtp3 wrote: post #426
kiba wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Million of people die in the US. In a pool of 300 million people that might be a small minority but it could be much worse. I was diabetic and still am, and was obese. I was also young. There's no telling that a viral infection would have landed me in the hospital but I do have risk factors. COVID is definitely a risk. It would be foolish not to practice at least some measure of risk control. There's definitely some…

In Southern California, surfers were arrested for surfing on an empty beach. Parks were closed. This was hailed as a safety measure. I suspect these sorts of policies are what GP was talking about, rather than vaccines or masking.

These were completely valid short-term responses to a situation where an effectively quarantined country had a small outbreak in Venice Beach and we didn't know a lot about spread.

But we were not that country. If the front door is wide open and there's a large sign above it saying "Free stuff - take what you want" because your spouse wants to embrace minimalism and throw away all your joint belongings, then triple deadbolting the back door and installing security cameras are not effective measures to protect your belongings.

There are other policy areas where states can experiment with "Red state" vs "Blue state" policies and compare how they perform, but pandemic spread is not one of them. The most permissive line of defense is the decision that has been made for everyone, and all it takes is one person (we used to call these 'bioterrorists', now we call them 'Presidents') to decide to "get this over with before the election", and it renders any other sensible precautions moot.

Areas where very aggressive precautions were implemented to counterbalance reckless policies elsewhere... didn't do that. You can't do that, without a very strong quarantine around the different policy regions.

This does not offer any commentary on the idea of sensible precautions, in a vacuum. The politicization of COVID that happened very rapidly didn't need to occur, and it did not occur in most other pandemics in this country, or in many other countries during COVID.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#446

Post by jvanderbot »

kiba wrote: post #324
jvanderbot wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit cards however, can be used to get free stuff from rewards. Credit loans or payment plans can also be used to get a higher credit score, making the first item easier. Conversely to your example of credit making cash, Cash can make you money through investing, so Credit can also be used to keep higher amounts of cash on hand when purchases are made. , e.g., buying a car on credit and using the car money to inves…

Credit card rewards are just discounts, discounts that are charged to the merchant. It's not a free lunch by any means.

I think that's a technicality. From my perspective 100% discount is called "Free", and I get that a few times a year when flying (tickets, upgrades, etc)

I calculate 100% based on the amount I get from my preferred airline for paying cash for groceries (0) vs the amount I get by using a card they issue (a few imaginary points/$). Then I trade those points for things I couldn't have had by paying cash. As long as I don't pay interest, we're in "Free" territory.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#447

Post by johnnyanmac »

nradov wrote: post #311
RankingMember wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this as directly correlated with the gradual denigration of liberal arts education, a core tenet of which is critical thinking.

Liberal arts education leaders haven't been doing themselves any favors. During the recent COVID-19 pandemic we saw many college administrations abandon all critical thinking to enforce blind obedience and mandatory compliance with pointless and counterproductive policies around lockdowns and mandates. Scientists were condemned for daring to even discuss alternative views. I absolutely see value in classical liberal…

I don't know how any of that had to do with liberal arts. To give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're interpretation is correct: do you blame the person when they panic in a major earthquake, as they watch their peers crushed around them?

It wasn't normal times and abnormal times need preparation. It's a great thing the acting president during COVID removed the pandemic response team the previous year. It's not wonder we were chickens wandering about without our heads.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#448

Post by toast0 »

cyanydeez wrote: post #215
ricardbejarano wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being "talked into" is one hell of an excuse not to take accountability for your own purchases.

If the DOD can't do it, why should poor people? https://americanmilitarynews.com/2024/11/pentagon-fails-7th-...

I doubt most people would pass a financial audit, unless they had built their life around "proper accounting controls". Of course, if they had an incentive to do so, it probably would only take two or three years to get things in place and consistent. But then, most people don't have 1.3 Million active employees [1], who knows how many contractors and retirees. The DoD's finances were not designed around audit requirements and it takes time and consistent attention to retrofit accounting controls into a very large organization.

[1] https://dwp.dmdc.osd.mil/dwp/api/downloadZ?fileId=136507&gro...

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#449

Post by johnnyanmac »

vdqtp3 wrote: post #426
kiba wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Million of people die in the US. In a pool of 300 million people that might be a small minority but it could be much worse. I was diabetic and still am, and was obese. I was also young. There's no telling that a viral infection would have landed me in the hospital but I do have risk factors. COVID is definitely a risk. It would be foolish not to practice at least some measure of risk control. There's definitely some…

In Southern California, surfers were arrested for surfing on an empty beach. Parks were closed. This was hailed as a safety measure. I suspect these sorts of policies are what GP was talking about, rather than vaccines or masking.

You picked two odd examples. A beach is debatable as being capable of being opened and closed, and whether or not a person is tresspassing, but parks are generally managed by the state or country. Of course they can close down. They typically close from subset to sunrise.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#450

Post by vel0city »

9rx wrote: post #432
vel0city wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole reason for accepting being squeezed in tightly with other people That's the thing, a lot of Americans really don't like this idea of being squeezed in tightly. People really don't like having a shared wall. And it's not that people like these tightly squeezed lot lines, they'd prefer 1 acre lots. These tiny lots are all they can afford while still being somewhat acceptable to them about commutes. Which Am…

> That's the thing, a lot of Americans really don't like this idea of being squeezed in tightly. Sure, it isn't coincidence that the "American Dream" has always been portrayed the sizeable house on a large acreage out in the country surrounded by white picket fences. But we're talking about the people who are choosing to cram in beside one another, but aren't bringing the services and joy that such density normally o…

> the commute times end up being about the same if you ever have to leave your immediate community

People routinely leave their community for their job all the time here. Go take a look at that map I shared earlier. Most of the people in that neighborhood probably don't work in Princeton. They probably don't even work in McKinney or Fairview. Good chance they work in North Plano, Frisco, Addison, Dallas, maybe Garland. Most people living here are probably driving about an hour to their job, each way, every day. With a lot of those people with those kinds of commutes having that take place on a tollway.

They do that because they can buy that 4-bedroom 3-bath 3-car garage ~2,400sqft with a gameroom house on its own lot for $375k. Meanwhile, a similar house within a few miles of their work (say, Frisco) is probably anywhere from $590k to $2M. Property taxes can be pretty steep here, so that $590k house gets like $14k/yr in property taxes in Frisco while that $375k house in Princeton is only $9k/yr, over $400/mo in additional taxes. They could potentially accept a smaller and thus cheaper house, but to them it's not worth the tradeoff. They need that 3-car garage, they need that gameroom.

My wife has coworkers who live in Forney and commute to jobs in Plano and Frisco. They do that commute 3-5 times a week and see nothing wrong with it. They value having a large home with tons of space, and with the kind of income they make there's little chance they could afford it anywhere near where those jobs are. Think a security guard and a building engineer (like an on-site maintenance tech for a commercial property) are going to own a $1M+ house? No. But they still want a 3 bedroom home with a pool and a spa and an outdoor kitchen, and they can get that for $300k in Forney.

Just trying to share the follow on mindset. If you're having to leave your home by car every day for work, then you're absolutely going to have a car. If you already have the car, why go to the little grocery store at the edge of the neighborhood when you just spend a little more transit time and go to the big store that has everything else you'd want to buy?

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