The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting • Hacker News Board

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#441

Post by alganet » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 3:57 AM UTC

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #440

alganet wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am asking what it has to do with friendship, implying that it has nothing to do with it. Unless... (now you complete my sentence either by denial, confirmation or deflection)

Uhh, nothing I guess. You need two fish for friendship (nevermind that bettas are too aggressive for that). With a fish and a mirror you only have one fish.

For friendship you need someone who doesn't talk like that.

Once you have been exposed to this kind of paranoid thinking, there is no way of building relationships of any kind anymore. It is like a spiritual death.

What is the bubble? The world of friends and healthy relationships, or the cold shitty place with cultural wars and divides everywhere?

If you bring someone to the shitty place, you better have the guts to acknowledge that that person will never, ever see friendship anywhere.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#442

Post by jedberg » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:28 AM UTC

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #366

jedberg wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two key things to making this work: Money and locality. Money: You pay people to do things that take up time. We have a house cleaner. That's a few hours right there. When the kids were little, we had a nanny. But the nanny didn't just watch the kids. She also washed and folded the laundry, tidied the house daily, and sometimes cooked dinner. In fact, now that they are in school, I'm thinking of hiring a ho…

Locality is increasingly unaffordable for people as it's far more common for people who rent to move often (to avoid paying high rent increases) and people who own to be forced into living in a small sunset of places where they can actually afford a home (often far away from their communities or friends)

In my case, the locality came after buying the house. We made friends with other people who live nearby.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#443

Post by __MatrixMan__ » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:42 AM UTC

alganet wrote: post #441

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, nothing I guess. You need two fish for friendship (nevermind that bettas are too aggressive for that). With a fish and a mirror you only have one fish.

For friendship you need someone who doesn't talk like that. Once you have been exposed to this kind of paranoid thinking, there is no way of building relationships of any kind anymore. It is like a spiritual death. What is the bubble? The world of friends and healthy relationships, or the cold shitty place with cultural wars and divides everywhere? If you bring someone to the shitty place, you better have the guts to…

Wow, you see absolutes everywhere. Exposed once, spiritual death. World of friends, world of wars--pick one. It's all more complex than that.

Some relationships are easy because nobody is trying to sabotage them, others are hard because somebody is, others are hard for entirely different reasons. It's the middle case that I'm concerned with here. I agree that it's a pretty awful thing to harm a friendship by injecting it with unnecessary culture war bullshit but my claim is that in most cases it's neither of the friends who want that outcome, it's some remote third party who has decided to interfere. Sure it's a failing of one friend or the other if they take the bait, but they have not spiritually killed the other by doing so.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#444

Post by bombcar » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:44 AM UTC

astura wrote: post #405

bombcar wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spend some time on bogleheads and you’ll see it all - from people saving $120k a year on $140k salary, to those spending $700k a year and not finding anything to save. The biggest thing I’ve learned is that if you have a monthly expense, it becomes “necessary fixed expense” damn quickly. Even if it’s $50 a month for telephone sanitizing.

telephone sanitizing?

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy example of a "useless middle-manager" type occupation.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#445

Post by alganet » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 4:56 AM UTC

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #443

alganet wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For friendship you need someone who doesn't talk like that. Once you have been exposed to this kind of paranoid thinking, there is no way of building relationships of any kind anymore. It is like a spiritual death. What is the bubble? The world of friends and healthy relationships, or the cold shitty place with cultural wars and divides everywhere? If you bring someone to the shitty place, you better have the guts to…

Wow, you see absolutes everywhere. Exposed once, spiritual death. World of friends, world of wars--pick one. It's all more complex than that. Some relationships are easy because nobody is trying to sabotage them, others are hard because somebody is, others are hard for entirely different reasons. It's the middle case that I'm concerned with here. I agree that it's a pretty awful thing to harm a friendship by injectin…

That is irrelevant.

I can see the "complexity" of the world just as clear as the absolute points of view.

It's a choice. If I recover and see beauty again, it means it was all fine. It wasn't, it will never be.

People who use social triggers must not get away. There will be blood on their hands, and there is nothing that can be done to avoid it or hide it.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#446

Post by tock » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 7:11 AM UTC

h2zizzle wrote: post #436

tock wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is every job. The rich paying the poor to do something that will bring them value. Every work visa is slavery by your argument. The reason cleaning as a job icks people out is because they see it as a "lesser" job. I am fine with it as long as the pay is good.

No, you're wrong. Someone with a work visa can leave if they want, they just can't stay if they don't meet certain conditions. However, they can travel to wherever they're authorized to. Difficult as it might be, they can also find another employer to sponsor them. They can also leave to visit home. Someone who has their passport taken cannot leave. They may be deported, like someone with a lapsed visa, but unlike th…

1. You do realise that not every house help is on some work visa where the employer takes away their passport right? That's illegal. These things happen a lot in arab countries not just for house helps but engineers too. Wanting to have a house help doesn't mean aspiring for "slavery" or taking away someones passport.

2. Work visa conditions if harsh enough are akin to slavery. You have Indians on H1B visas for over a decade with no chance of getting a green card. They have bought houses and raised families here. And can be kicked out in 3 months if they are out of a job. They are stuck.

> encourages it class divisions and abuses

Do you feel the same about a personal driver? A chef? A live-in nurse? What professions are socially ok in your opinion? If someone can pay good wages for a maid its absolutely ok. In fact its good that money flows into poorer communities. If you want real class equality ensure that every job gets paid similar amounts. A rich engineer not hiring a maid just makes wealth inequality worse. Its far better for the community than stuffing it in some index fund.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#447

Post by rorylaitila » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 8:48 AM UTC

agnishom wrote: post #307

rorylaitila wrote: post #20

I'm way out on the edge of the bell curve in terms of desire for 1 on 1 quality time with friends. Almost everyone enjoys time when it is given to them, but almost no one is proactive. I hear "Thanks so much for reaching out I am so bad at it" from practically everyone. I've concluded that most people simply don't have the executive function to manage and overcome such a disconnected social environment.

> I hear "Thanks so much for reaching out I am so bad at it" from practically everyone. I feel the same way. you are our hero! Honestly, I feel that a lot of people do not appreciate this kind of behavior as much as they should

Thanks, I appreciate that!

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#448

Post by sgt » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 9:01 AM UTC

tock wrote: post #446

h2zizzle wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you're wrong. Someone with a work visa can leave if they want, they just can't stay if they don't meet certain conditions. However, they can travel to wherever they're authorized to. Difficult as it might be, they can also find another employer to sponsor them. They can also leave to visit home. Someone who has their passport taken cannot leave. They may be deported, like someone with a lapsed visa, but unlike th…

1. You do realise that not every house help is on some work visa where the employer takes away their passport right? That's illegal. These things happen a lot in arab countries not just for house helps but engineers too. Wanting to have a house help doesn't mean aspiring for "slavery" or taking away someones passport. 2. Work visa conditions if harsh enough are akin to slavery. You have Indians on H1B visas for over…

> 2. Work visa conditions if harsh enough are akin to slavery. You have Indians on H1B visas for over a decade with no chance of getting a green card. They have bought houses and raised families here. And can be kicked out in 3 months if they are out of a job. They are stuck.

Sounds very stressful. Is there no way for them to replace the H1B visa with something more permanent? Kinda like a middle step to green card?

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#449

Post by 9rx » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 2:23 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #238

9rx wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more interesting question is: If people in HCOL areas are so poor that they can't even afford to make time to bask in friendships with the people the city has to offer, why are they still there?

shops are nearby, less or even no commute to work. access to public transport.

Doesn't that describe every cheap small town?

(Little public transport is needed as you can walk the whole town over, but there is usually transport to other towns)

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#450

Post by astura » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 2:29 PM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #427

astura wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I can't find the post again but they itemized it according to what they thought was normal basics. I remember there was large car payments. OI have been driving for more than 25 years, I've had a car payment for maybe 10 months in those 25 years. To me a car payment is a massive luxury, to this dude it's a minimum basic.

Huh, I would argue that someone who has 70k after tax per year to spend generally shouldn't be buying a car with debt _at all_; they should be able to afford to save and buy one outright.

Yes, that's exactly my point.

I save for my cars, I don't, generally, finance them. I did finance one car once when I was a young engineer and still had student loans. I did it because I was just starting my career. Paid off the loan completely within a year.

I basically think everyone, no matter your income, should strive to save for their cars as much as possible, and try to avoid financing. Always financing a car is a trap to always spend more than you can really afford on a car. Saving and paying cash allows you to really gauge what is affordable. Even my sister in law who makes close to minimum wage has always been able to save for her cars and pay cash.