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IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge

theregister.com

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Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge

#441

Post by Timon3 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #382
croes wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s still DEI. Poor have less chances? Enforce hiring of the poor. Non-white habe less chances? Enforce hiring of non-whites. Non-male have less chances? Enforce hiring of non-males. Disabled have less chances? Enforce hiring of disabled. If you have less chances because of a attribute you aren’t responsible for, enforce hiring of people with such an attribute to normalize the attribute in the workspace is DEI.

The premise of that proposal is that the test scores are inaccurate as a result of the economic disparity, because people with less income have less resources to prepare for the test. That would apply in the case of an economic disparity because having more resources allows you to artificially receive a higher score. It's not about accepting someone with less merit out of charity but rather about adjusting for a meas…

> But the economic disparity is the reason for the racial disparity, because otherwise we expect people of different races are equally intelligent, right? So the economic disparity is the real one and accounting for that inherently accounts for the racial disparity as well, and you don't need both.

That's only true if you assume prejudices like racism and sexism don't exist anymore, but they do. Even today, these are the lived experiences of many people in society. As examples, there are black people who don't get jobs because they are just assumed to be worse candidates, even when they are more qualified and put in more work. There are women who don't get jobs because they are just assumed to be worse candidates, and so on.

These are real implicit biases, and they don't go away by just ignoring them.

Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge

#442

Post by notepad0x90 »

Just thinking out loud here, are they not worried about class action lawsuits. Maybe they think the courts and jury trial is on their side, but if the 2028 election doesn't go towards the current admin's side, then won't there be massive lawsuits? It's not like IBM is a stranger to that either way.

What's the risk calculus here? If I were an apathetic CEO who just cares about the bottom-line, I would wait for the government to at least publicly pressure the company before bending the knee. That way, the company is insulated from lawsuits to a degree, "coercion" could be the defense.

It's almost like they're eager to promote racism now lol.

Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge

#443

Post by apexalpha »

Angostura wrote: post #92
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's misleading: > IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge Because the rest of the items in the headline are labor related, the implication is that "DEI" is getting fired, whatever that means. People in this comment section who did not read TFA are commenting on "DEI" firings, even though there's nothing in TFA about that. It's a little worse than clickbait IMO.

> related, the implication is that "DEI" is getting fired, No. the implication is that DEI policies are being watered down or removed

Respectfully, I disagree. I immediately thought they were firing all DEI related people just like the entire federal government.

Also:

Purge: remove (a group of people considered undesirable) from an organization or place in an abrupt or violent way.

Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge

#444

Post by lazide »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #438
harimau777 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it necessarily has to be all one thing or the other. For example, most proponents of DEI would advocate that they be used both for university recruitment and for hiring. Most would also advocate the society avoid messaging that certain degrees/careers are only for a given gender in order to avoid biasing who is interested in a certain degree/career.

> For example, most proponents of DEI would advocate that they be used both for university recruitment and for hiring. That doesn't justify setting the current target at 50% for employers whose current candidate pool is at 85%. > Most would also advocate the society avoid messaging that certain degrees/careers are only for a given gender in order to avoid biasing who is interested in a certain degree/career. How are…

And if you’ve ever been or been adjacent to oil workers or truck drivers - those daughters would be well served by listening, assuming they have any other options.

They are brutal occupations that chew up and spit out the typically more physically robust men who make up the majority of those occupations on the regular.

Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge

#445

Post by leereeves »

harimau777 wrote: post #433
leereeves wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the opportunity pipeline that already exists for white people There is no opportunity pipeline for white people. There is an opportunity pipeline for a small number of well connected, wealthy people who can get their kids into elite prep schools starting from kindergarten. It's not open to working class white people. Edit: that doesn't mean no working class white person can succeed. Just that the prep school, elite…

That's where the idea of intersectionality comes in. A person who is white and poor might be worse off than someone who is black and rich; however, someone who is black and poor would likely be worse off than both of them. That's also why DEI advocates generally don't advocate focusing exclusively on race. Instead they generally advocate that DEI focus on many factors such as race, wealth, disability, sexuality, gend…

I think that's a step in the right direction. I'd just take it one step further, consider all the factors of each person's life, and thus treat people as individuals and not as representatives of a few select groups. Intersectionality excludes too many factors as it focuses on just a few.

Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge

#446

Post by mcphage »

dude187 wrote: post #414
mcphage wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By relying on quotas you have to dig deeper into the minority pool of candidates, and are more likely to get someone less skilled than if you hadn't used quotas. What? By pulling from a larger pool of candidates, you’re more likely to get someone more skilled.

You're narrowing the pool by only hiring specific races or sexes. Not widening it. Do you believe that hiring currently excludes those races and sexes? Because that's explicitly illegal, and has been for a long time

> Do you believe that hiring currently excludes those races and sexes?

Good lord yes. In software engineering almost everyone is a white male.

Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge

#447

Post by relaxing »

leereeves wrote: post #376
scotomafascia wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the equivalent for young men? Literally all of the other hackathons ever. Girls who Code arose because of toxic men chasing girls and women out of those spaces. Women worked tirelessly for decades to make these spaces happen. Men just want to whine about it because to actually address the issue is too “woke”. I’m sorry you created your prison, but don’t look to us to bail you out while you’re punching us do…

> ... toxic men chasing girls and women out ... Men just want to whine ... while you’re punching us down .... reminds me of the white supremacists Thank you for providing an example of the hostility faced by anyone who even raises the issue, let alone tries to improve things.

You’re not improving things. You’re trying to take away things that make the world better.

If you stuck to programs that help boys - yes they exist - maybe you’d have a moral leg to stand on.

Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge

#448

Post by scotomafascia »

leereeves wrote: post #376
scotomafascia wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the equivalent for young men? Literally all of the other hackathons ever. Girls who Code arose because of toxic men chasing girls and women out of those spaces. Women worked tirelessly for decades to make these spaces happen. Men just want to whine about it because to actually address the issue is too “woke”. I’m sorry you created your prison, but don’t look to us to bail you out while you’re punching us do…

> ... toxic men chasing girls and women out ... Men just want to whine ... while you’re punching us down .... reminds me of the white supremacists Thank you for providing an example of the hostility faced by anyone who even raises the issue, let alone tries to improve things.

[flagged]

Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge

#449

Post by dghlsakjg »

rdtsc wrote: post #237
dghlsakjg wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the state, but you don’t have to prove intent, you have to prove that the conditions of your job changed enough that it is an unreasonable burden. If they transfer you to a location that requires an additional hour of commuting, you just have to prove that the commute takes an extra hour.

> If they transfer you to a location that requires an additional hour of commuting, you just have to prove that the commute takes an extra hour. Oh that’s easy to prove. But then what? Does your employment contract prohibit commutes.

No. The government authority in charge of employment decides whether that change is enough of a change of the original job that it constitutes constructive dismissal.

If so, you can quit your job and are eligible for unemployment and any other legal benefits of having been fired without cause, and a claim is put against the employers account in the unemployment system.

Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge

#450

Post by sporkland »

mcphage wrote: post #446
dude187 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're narrowing the pool by only hiring specific races or sexes. Not widening it. Do you believe that hiring currently excludes those races and sexes? Because that's explicitly illegal, and has been for a long time

> Do you believe that hiring currently excludes those races and sexes? Good lord yes. In software engineering almost everyone is a white male.

Absolutely and unequivocally false. Unless you are casting Asian and Indian as white.
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