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Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#441

Post by blendergeek »

handoflixue wrote: post #359
ndiddy wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that Mozilla updated their site a couple days ago to remove any wording along the lines of "Firefox will never sell your data to advertisers" when a flag associated with the new Firefox terms of use is enabled (see https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/commit/d459addab846d8144b... ), I'm not so sure that this is a CYA about standard web browser usage.

> remove any wording along the lines of "Firefox will never sell your data to advertisers" You mean wording like this? ""Mozilla doesn’t sell data about you (in the way that most people think about “selling data“), and we don’t buy data about you. Since we strive for transparency, and the LEGAL definition of “sale of data“ is extremely broad in some places, we’ve had to step back from making the definitive statements…

Here is the next sentence from that FAQ:

> We still put a lot of work into making sure that the data that we share with our partners (which we need to do to make Firefox commercially viable) is stripped of any identifying information, or shared only in the aggregate, or is put through our privacy preserving technologies (like OHTTP)

So they are sharing your data with partners, commercially. but only in "anonymized" form so its OK?

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#442

Post by graemep »

spacechild1 wrote: post #413
userbinator wrote: post #151

The other WTF is here: Your use of Firefox must follow Mozilla’s Acceptable Use Policy, and you agree that you will not use Firefox to infringe anyone’s rights or violate any applicable laws or regulations. Acceptable Use Policy links to https://www.mozilla.org/about/legal/acceptable-use/ which says "You may not use any of Mozilla’s services to[...]Upload, download, transmit, display, or grant access to content that…

I'm pretty sure this is about Mozilla services . AFAICT, Firefox itself is licensed under the https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Public_License and as such doesn't put any restrictions on how you use the software.

That is what I expected to see, but the title of the page is "Firefox Terms of Use"

I think its a good argument for using a Firefox fork.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#443

Post by boesboes »

My god people, what a nothing burger. Try clicking the link and reading the actual terms:

> You give Mozilla all rights necessary to operate Firefox, including processing data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice, as well as acting on your behalf to help you navigate the internet. When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox.

Most of the comments here are in bad faith or just people jumping on the hype train. Sad.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#444

Post by matsemann »

_mitterpach wrote: post #366

Link directly to the Github commit: https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/commit/d459addab846d8144b... , which links to the following issue: https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/issues/16016 There are a bunch of locked Google docs linked in the issue, probably internal privacy guidelines. I can't say that this surprises me, perhaps they are looking for alternate revenue streams in case Google cuts them out? To HN: Will yo…

> To HN: Will you be quitting firefox over this change, or is there simply no better place to leave for?

Not to be overly whataboutistic, but we tolerate sooo much more from other players. It's annoying how we hold some to a higher standard, but ignore others doing worse. I get people are disappointed in Mozilla and wants them to do better, but it's a bit like the "we live in a society meme", where those doing good must be perfect or else..

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#445

Post by account42 »

mrguyorama wrote: post #114
butz wrote: post #71

Remember the time, when browsers were competing who will load website fastest or who will render Acid2 test correctly? Those were the days.

That was great, except everyone just installed chrome because the website google told them to and put them right back in the exact monopoly position that allowed IE6 to stagnate. If you use chrome still, you are literally part of the problem. I still think Mozilla, just barely treading into the advertising waters, is probably a better option than the literal advertising panopticon that owns our world and data.

"If you choose the slightly less evil browser you are literally part of the problem".

Yeah no, both are shit. Mozilla is also literally an advertising company now besides being almost exclusively funded by one.

If Mozilla wants people to choose Firefox over other browsers based on principles they first need to stick to principles themselves. Why are you asking people to give up anything (even if it's just a small amount of convenience) for a company that is run pretty much the same way as the alternatives, run by a CEO whining about a salary of millions per year not being enough. They made their bed.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#446

Post by Digit-Al »

pmontra wrote: post #400

> When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information, Taken literally it means that when I use Firefox to upload a file to a customer's web site Mozilla is getting that file too, which does not seem likely. They could get a copy of the text I'm typing right now in Firefox or it means that the browser could do some local pro…

I have seen discussions of this sort of wording so many times over the years. My understanding is as follows (and I could be wrong, but this is my understanding of why that wording is used). If you use Firefox to upload a file to a website then, legally speaking,the browser is acting as a "publisher"of that file. Because of Draconian laws in many countries, to publish a file you have to have a legal right to the file, therefore Mozilla have to establish that if you use them to upload a file that you are granting them the legal right to publish that file. It has to be worldwide because you may be uploading to anywhere in the world.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#449

Post by 7373737373 »

Okay, can anyone recommend a good, uBlock-Origin supporting browser that isn't controlled by underhanded corporate/for-profit lying-through-their-teeth pieces of shit?

Making these legal terms changes while "summarizing" them with the typical "we care about your privacy" bullshit is of the same nature as punching someone in the face and exclaiming you are caring about their health. It's just evil - misleading and abusive.

I feel like the internet needs a tracker of moral failings of companies/organizations like this, it's still too easy for something like this to slip through and not reach sufficient publicity to affect public opinion and therefore action. They need to be held to the highest account, openly, publicly, and brutally shamed, ostracized and sued if necessary. If they fail and exploit the rights of individuals, mishandle the "implicit consent"/trust of their users, at their scale, they fail and exploit collective humanity.

One may argue this is a non-issue due to the freedom of contract - and people can just choose to use whatever they want - but who among us has such a continuous legal awareness of all the software they use to be able to switch whenever needed due to some software enshittifying?

My only hope may still lie in software managed by legally codified (truly) non-profit organizations. Lichess and the Blender Foundation are led by people who have held to their word, and made the world better for it.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#450

Post by MrAlex94 »

I might have differed with Brendan Eich on a few matters, but he was a good steward of Firefox in my book.

When Mitchell Baker took the reins, Mozilla became rather more heavy-handed towards us - the irony being that Waterfox was once proudly displayed on the Mozilla website under their "Powered By" banner.

I appreciate the constant existential wobble Firefox faces, but they've made some peculiar decisions as of late.

On one hand, they're finally implementing features users have been clamouring for ages (tab groups, vertical tabs and the likes) - on the other, rather odd policy choices.

I should point out, it seems daft to me when others suggest using forks with no well-established governance of their own, essentially shifting trust from an organisation at least answerable to certain regulations, to individuals with no proper framework or guidelines.

I've done my best with Waterfox over the years to have it represented by a proper legal entity with policies to follow; so if anyone is interested take a look.

Edit: FWIW I've written some more thoughts on it here: https://www.waterfox.net/blog/a-comment-on-mozilla-changes/

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