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NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

congestion-pricing-tracker.com

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Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#441

Post by woodruffw »

blehn wrote: post #424

1. The data is obviously flawed, but if there's anything to speculate from it, it's that the actual congestion in lower Manhattan isn't affected that much. 2. So the success of this policy really depends on how much additional revenue it's bringing in for the city and the MTA. The $9 increase needs to significantly offset the loss in toll revenue from the decrease in drivers. 3. There are so many other simple policie…

> The $9 increase needs to significantly offset the loss in toll revenue from the decrease in drivers.

Many of the entries in question are not tolled: the Brooklyn/Manhattan/Williamsburg/QBB are all toll-free, but are included in congestion pricing. Similarly, the street-level entries to the congestion zone were never tolled. I think the state's calculations probably conclude that these more than offset the drop in toll revenue.

(Or, more nuanced: much of the previous toll revenue went to PANYNJ, whereas congestion pricing funds go directly to the MTA/NYCT.)

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#442

Post by bluGill »

ses1984 wrote: post #437
varelaseb wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most econ-brained response possible. Why would the success of a public policy be exclusively defined by revenue generated?

Because it’s based on the assumption that congestion didn’t actually go down, see number 1 posted by op. If you want congestion to go down, keep raising the price. It will eventually go down and revenue could go up a lot.

Or you get voted out of office and your charges reversed down to zero - or perhaps negative as the people are so mad they take it out on the transit this was supposed to fund.

Politics is tricky, don't take so much you make people affected mad enough to undo what you wanted.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#443

Post by jimbob45 »

blehn wrote: post #424

1. The data is obviously flawed, but if there's anything to speculate from it, it's that the actual congestion in lower Manhattan isn't affected that much. 2. So the success of this policy really depends on how much additional revenue it's bringing in for the city and the MTA. The $9 increase needs to significantly offset the loss in toll revenue from the decrease in drivers. 3. There are so many other simple policie…

Metered parking everywhere.

Please no. Just tax me at the end of the year if you really need more money. Stop paywalling everything.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#444

Post by Lanolderen »

blehn wrote: post #403
Lanolderen wrote: post #283

I wish people would focus more on scooters and motorcycles than moving people in busses. Coming from a place with decent and cheap public transport, no one likes it. It'll never be as fast, you'll always be closed in a bacteria greenhouse with strangers, there will always be crazies, it'll never have the exact path you need, you don't have as much control over it.. For the past year I've been commuting on a motorcycl…

No one likes decent and cheap public transport? I find that hard to believe. It's basically the common denominator for the best modern cities. Motorcycles are definitely not the solution. Motorcycle usage in NYC has skyrocketed since 2020 and as a result the streets are far noisier, more chaotic, and more dangerous, especially for pedestrians and cyclists.

I mean it in the sense that I've literally never met a person who prefers travelling by public transport to a personal motorized vehicle outside of long trips. The usage I've seen of it is from people who are too much of a mess financially to afford a car/license or people who are terrified of driving. Incentives just don't fix the issue of having no control and being in a pod with a hundred people you don't know and who have not been screened for insanity, excessive odor, sickness and general obnoxiousness.

And there are scooters and commuter bikes which are tamer, even electric ones. I'm not saying everyone should get sports bikes with 16 Rs in the name and a straight pipe or a Harley Tractor.

Out of curiosity, are motorcycles actually more dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists than cars? Couldn't find anything quick enough.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#445

Post by jacobgkau »

ihuman wrote: post #425
blehn wrote: post #424

1. The data is obviously flawed, but if there's anything to speculate from it, it's that the actual congestion in lower Manhattan isn't affected that much. 2. So the success of this policy really depends on how much additional revenue it's bringing in for the city and the MTA. The $9 increase needs to significantly offset the loss in toll revenue from the decrease in drivers. 3. There are so many other simple policie…

> So the success of this policy really depends on how much additional revenue it's bringing in for the city and the MTA. I thought the point of the policy is to get people to use the train instead of cars, freeing up the roads for people that actually need it?

The first sentence they said was:

> 1. The data is obviously flawed, but if there's anything to speculate from it, it's that the actual congestion in lower Manhattan isn't affected that much.

I'm not saying that's correct or incorrect, but the person you replied to already considered what you brought up and responded to it. The primary "point" seems not to have worked, so the in-practice reason to keep the policy becomes other benefits, which for the city would include revenue being raised. (I guess you can argue it's not a "success" if the main point wasn't achieved, but good luck convincing the city to give up the additional revenue.)

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#446

Post by spamizbad »

blehn wrote: post #424

1. The data is obviously flawed, but if there's anything to speculate from it, it's that the actual congestion in lower Manhattan isn't affected that much. 2. So the success of this policy really depends on how much additional revenue it's bringing in for the city and the MTA. The $9 increase needs to significantly offset the loss in toll revenue from the decrease in drivers. 3. There are so many other simple policie…

You also have to factor in any reduction (or increase) in traffic fatalities and injuries. 34 traffic deaths and roughly 7500 injuries occurred in Manhattan in one of the nation's highest GDP-per-capita area, so the loss of economic output from these fatalities and injuries is likely fairly high.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#447

Post by brettgriffin »

paxys wrote: post #77
brettgriffin wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are like 400 housing developments in NYC for lower income folks. Saying that lower income folks don't drive in NYC is bananas.

NYC != Manhattan congestion zone. Plenty of people in lower income groups (literally over a million) live and drive in NYC. A negligible number of them drive into Manhattan for work every day.

> A negligible number of them drive into Manhattan for work every day.

I think you're just making that up. Do you have a source?

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#448

Post by lotsoweiners »

boroboro4 wrote: post #208
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manhattan is such a strange place to live. People are locked into something far off the normal ways of living, and they forget those other ways of life and look down on them (smaller less dense cities, suburbs, rural areas). Living in closets in high rises and moving around underground isn’t life. Having room for living, being able to get around quickly with private owned vehicles, and walking on grass instead of con…

Manhattan/NYC also provides you with truly diverse crowd of people around, cultural events and experiences, different food and many more. NYC in general also have plenty of different neighborhoods with very different lifestyles and vibes.

None of that crap you mentioned has anything to do with the previous post. I live in as suburban of a neighborhood as you can imagine and within 10-15 minutes could walk to a Vietnamese restaurant, 2 sushi restaurants, Thai, NY style pizza, 2 bars, several shitty Mexican restaurants, and just about every fast food chain. I’ll trade this ease of living over “vibes” any day.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#449

Post by ses1984 »

bluGill wrote: post #442
ses1984 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it’s based on the assumption that congestion didn’t actually go down, see number 1 posted by op. If you want congestion to go down, keep raising the price. It will eventually go down and revenue could go up a lot.

Or you get voted out of office and your charges reversed down to zero - or perhaps negative as the people are so mad they take it out on the transit this was supposed to fund. Politics is tricky, don't take so much you make people affected mad enough to undo what you wanted.

Both parties like money so one party may be voted out if people are angry, but it’s unlikely to result in the charge going away.

It’s also nyc primarily in charge of it and nyc constituents probably are in favor of less congestion and more money.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#450

Post by [deleted] »

blehn wrote: post #424

1. The data is obviously flawed, but if there's anything to speculate from it, it's that the actual congestion in lower Manhattan isn't affected that much. 2. So the success of this policy really depends on how much additional revenue it's bringing in for the city and the MTA. The $9 increase needs to significantly offset the loss in toll revenue from the decrease in drivers. 3. There are so many other simple policie…

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