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Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

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Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#441

Post by pmarreck »

Bilal_io wrote: post #223
yoavm wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but here's one I feel quite uncomfortable with: https://quran.com/en/an-nisa/155/tafsirs - "The Hour will not start, until after the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them. The Jew will hide behind a stone or tree, and the tree will say, `O Muslim! O servant of Allah! This is a Jew behind me, come and kill him". Other examples from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An-Nisa include "Men are the prote…

> Not the OP, but here's one I feel quite uncomfortable with: https://quran.com/en/an-nisa/155/tafsirs - "The Hour will not start, until after the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them. The Jew will hide behind a stone or tree, and the tree will say, `O Muslim! O servant of Allah! This is a Jew behind me, come and kill him". This is not part of the Quran, but a Hadeeth, and the meaning of it is that the Je…

OK, now do Surah 2:191, 3:28, 3:85, 5:33, 8:12, 8:60, 8:65, 9:5, 9:30, 9:123, 22:19, and 47:4.

All only taken from the Quran. And I have a much longer list.

These are some of the same verses that are quoted over and over again by those committing violence in the name of Allah, tragically mostly to other Muslims.

Ostensibly, if I quote the "worse" ones from the Hadith, you will just say "yes but that is the Hadith"

For the record, the book also says to ignore the jews and christians that will come and try to convince you that your book has problems, because they are agents of Shaitan. Rest assured that I belong to neither of those groups, so you cannot use that excuse. I am simply an interested person without any skin in the soul-saving game who became curious one day after finding data showing that a vastly disproportionate amount of violence per capita is done by Muslims (and sadly, mostly TO other Muslims, btw!) and wanted to know why, so I started reading.

Alhamdulillah.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#442

Post by pmarreck »

cess11 wrote: post #170
yoavm wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but here's one I feel quite uncomfortable with: https://quran.com/en/an-nisa/155/tafsirs - "The Hour will not start, until after the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them. The Jew will hide behind a stone or tree, and the tree will say, `O Muslim! O servant of Allah! This is a Jew behind me, come and kill him". Other examples from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An-Nisa include "Men are the prote…

The New Testament has similar passages. One of the most well known has Jesus attacking pilgrims and money changers in the temple. John is rather obviously antijewish. "I have not come with peace" is another well known, not very palatable one.

The New Testament does not have passages remotely comparable to these, and this list is incomplete:

Surah 2:191, 3:28, 3:85, 5:33, 8:12, 8:60, 8:65, 9:5, 9:30, 9:123, 22:19, 47:4.

Also, Jesus didn't "attack" anyone. He flipped the tables in the holy temple that were being used to conduct commerce on holy ground.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#443

Post by pmarreck »

bobxmax wrote: post #396
yoavm wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting a little ridiculous... Your question was what parts of the Quran could be considered controversial. I'm really not looking for religious explanations. If you cannot see why having a text that says Jews committed crimes and are cursed, even if it's actually about some very specific Jews in the past, then I guess we don't agree on the definition of "controversial".

I don't think you know what anti-semitic means. That passage is talking about a very specific group of people and what happened to them. It has nothing to do with Jews in general as a race/people. Just because a sentence has the word "Jew" in it and isn't wildly positive doesn't automatically make it anti-semitic. There are other parts where it talks about Arabs who transgressed and were cursed - is the Qur'an now an…

> Just because a sentence has the word "Jew" in it and isn't wildly positive doesn't automatically make it anti-semitic.

LOL, this is quite the impressive goalpost-moving. I'm sure all the terrorists who believe they will attain Jannat al-Firdous by becoming Shaheed while killing Israelis (thanks to Sunan Ibn Majah 2799, Book 24, Hadith 47) are making the same distinction you are.

Quran 2:80, Quran 5:82, Quran 9:29, Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Hadith 176 and Sahih Muslim 41:6985 and Sahih al-Bukhari 3593 (of course), Surah 9:30 actually makes a provably false statement about Jewish belief, Surah 98:6... I can continue if you'd like, or you can continue to insist that the book is not only hugely anti-semitic but also anti-christian (although to an admittedly lesser degree)

I am a complete skeptical agnostic at this point (although I was born Catholic). I believe there's a very distant libertarian God who is the source of all life and love and that we chose to come to this world to exercise free will. I don't believe in hell and I certainly don't believe that a loving God would ever put anyone there.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#444

Post by gregw2 »

tw1984 wrote: post #327
roca wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a democracy and reasonably friendly to the USA, it's not a big deal. In the 1990s everyone thought Japan was going to be the next superpower and that was just fine.

are you kidding? the US forced Japan to sign the plaza accord effectively ending Japan's rise. that was followed by 30 years close to zero economic growth. you are not mature enough to discuss such topic if you believe the US will be happy to be taken over by some democratic friends.

I am intrigued by the notion that the Plaza Accord was a lynchpin that stopped Japan, and I'm sure better minds have debated it than me, but I don't quite see how a currency accord that didn't shift the trade flows or even the dollar that much, and which was reversed a couple years later in the Louvre Accord, really killed Japan's rise.

My perception is that Japan, after some great success, went through a normal semi-inevitable asset bubble, but their response was uniquely Japanese. Rather than letting firms and the social contract of lifetime employment (particularly for older workers) go bankrupt, their firms and country decided to absorb the losses for a generation and stagnate.

Economically it was a very suboptimal approach but socially/morally I'm less confident it was the wrong call.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#445

Post by Bilal_io »

pmarreck wrote: post #441
Bilal_io wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not the OP, but here's one I feel quite uncomfortable with: https://quran.com/en/an-nisa/155/tafsirs - "The Hour will not start, until after the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them. The Jew will hide behind a stone or tree, and the tree will say, `O Muslim! O servant of Allah! This is a Jew behind me, come and kill him". This is not part of the Quran, but a Hadeeth, and the meaning of it is that the Je…

OK, now do Surah 2:191, 3:28, 3:85, 5:33, 8:12, 8:60, 8:65, 9:5, 9:30, 9:123, 22:19, and 47:4. All only taken from the Quran. And I have a much longer list. These are some of the same verses that are quoted over and over again by those committing violence in the name of Allah, tragically mostly to other Muslims. Ostensibly, if I quote the "worse" ones from the Hadith, you will just say "yes but that is the Hadith" Fo…

You're doing what others do, you're picking stuff out of context. Start by reading a few verses before and after each one of the verses you mentioned, then we can discuss them further.

Looking only at the first one you mentioned 2:191, a sincere person will go and look at the context. 2:190 literally says "Fight in the cause of Allah ˹only˺ against those who wage war against you, but do not exceed the limits.1 Allah does not like transgressors."

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#446

Post by pphysch »

daveguy wrote: post #429
pphysch wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A country targeted in an ongoing hybrid war by the world's #1 superpower would have a (relatively) extreme response to a pandemic that originated in an epidemiologically interesting location deep in their inland territory, and that extreme response having any substantial national security impetuous is "batshit insane". Insightful contribution! A big country would never overreact to national security threats. We have…

I was referring to your characterization of the situation.

Another empty, dismissive comment. Why are you even commenting on this site?

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#447

Post by niceguy1827 »

gregw2 wrote: post #444
tw1984 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you kidding? the US forced Japan to sign the plaza accord effectively ending Japan's rise. that was followed by 30 years close to zero economic growth. you are not mature enough to discuss such topic if you believe the US will be happy to be taken over by some democratic friends.

I am intrigued by the notion that the Plaza Accord was a lynchpin that stopped Japan, and I'm sure better minds have debated it than me, but I don't quite see how a currency accord that didn't shift the trade flows or even the dollar that much, and which was reversed a couple years later in the Louvre Accord, really killed Japan's rise. My perception is that Japan, after some great success, went through a normal semi…

Arguing about the Plaza Accord is really a moot point. The real argument is that in the 80s, Japan-bashing was a real thing, just like the China-bashing today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment_in_the...

https://www.nytimes.com/1982/04/06/us/resentment-of-japanese...

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#448

Post by bobxmax »

pmarreck wrote: post #443
bobxmax wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you know what anti-semitic means. That passage is talking about a very specific group of people and what happened to them. It has nothing to do with Jews in general as a race/people. Just because a sentence has the word "Jew" in it and isn't wildly positive doesn't automatically make it anti-semitic. There are other parts where it talks about Arabs who transgressed and were cursed - is the Qur'an now an…

> Just because a sentence has the word "Jew" in it and isn't wildly positive doesn't automatically make it anti-semitic. LOL, this is quite the impressive goalpost-moving. I'm sure all the terrorists who believe they will attain Jannat al-Firdous by becoming Shaheed while killing Israelis (thanks to Sunan Ibn Majah 2799, Book 24, Hadith 47) are making the same distinction you are. Quran 2:80, Quran 5:82, Quran 9:29,…

Good god what a stupid post. I knew I was in for a treat when you claimed a Hasan hadith was being used to justify murdering people, but then you followed it up with every verse you could find vaguely mentioning Jews and even some completely unrelated to them. It's like reading a fundie from Louisiana's "evidence" against vaccines on Facebook.

"USAF Veteran" - OK makes sense now. You emptied your brain and drank the Kool-Aid a long time ago.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#449

Post by jki275 »

cess11 wrote: post #393
jki275 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a significant misunderstanding of the NT. Jesus drove the money changers out of the Temple, because they were violating the Temple with their presence and their actions -- preying on poor people there. Jesus' primary message was love (Love thy neighbor as thyself), peace, and the path to righteousness (Sell all your goods, give them to the poor, and follow me -- no man comes to the Father but through me). The…

Attacking jewish pilgrims and people offering them services seems pretty antijewish regardless of how you want to justify it. Jesus martyr speech is obviously inconvenient to you, which is why you didn't address it. The early christians did not expect a peaceful, loving resolution to the cosmic drama, instead they wrote texts detailing gruesome catastrophe, mass death and a triumphant king messiah rising victorious a…

Read the New Testament then.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#450

Post by vkou »

danenania wrote: post #392
vkou wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the desire to see the conspiracy and not the boring, mundane explanation is a failure of communication, scientific thinking, or critical reasoning skills. I think it's simply the consequences of politically motivated reasoning. (At least, for people who have spent much time thinking about it.) > I've yet to see anyone effectively communicate why the intuitively more probable answer is the less probable…

Another explanation could be detection bias: it was tracked to the market not because it originated there, but because vastly more resources have been expended on investigating the market compared to any other place in the city. You’re assuming “it was tracked to there” = “it originated there” but that’s a big leap.

> You’re assuming “it was tracked to there” = “it originated there” but that’s a big leap.

If the market were one of multiple second-generation infection spreader sites, we'd have had significantly faster growth in the rate of infections.

With the power of hindsight, the rate of spread of COVID is well-understood, and the timelines of people getting sick is consistent with one initial outbreak site. There just aren't any known cases where someone came down with COVID on day 1 of the outbreak, without also having gone to that market.

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