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Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

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Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#441

Post by m463 »

silenced_trope wrote: post #236
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before anyone jumps into this book I would caution against it. This book had many very cool ideas and moments. The way it played out felt very "real". However, in the end there was very little actual story and was very boring at times. I actively dislike Neal Stephenson but if you want a near-future climate story I would recommend Termination Shock over Ministry For The Future. Just a random internet person's two cen…

> I actively dislike Neal Stephenson Why is that? I really liked Snow Crash and Anathem. Reamde was okay. I don't remember much about Diamond Age or Cryptonomicon.

I think I started having trouble getting through his stuff with the baroque cycle.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#442

Post by m463 »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #184
insane_dreamer wrote: post #171

Incidentally this is one of the approaches described in Kim Robinson's The Ministry for the Future, a novel on climate change (more about the political ramifications of it than the ecological impacts). Interesting read.

Before anyone jumps into this book I would caution against it. This book had many very cool ideas and moments. The way it played out felt very "real". However, in the end there was very little actual story and was very boring at times. I actively dislike Neal Stephenson but if you want a near-future climate story I would recommend Termination Shock over Ministry For The Future. Just a random internet person's two cen…

I had trouble with the Mars series and never got through it.

I kind of wonder if it is easier for me to enjoy fiction that requires more "suspension of disbelief" with ftl or time travel, alien races and magic.

In comparison when I don't have to suspend any disbelief, we haven't met aliens, other worlds are actually too far to get to, and physics and science is unyielding... it is harder to enjoy myself.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#444

Post by valval »

shafyy wrote: post #319
valval wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data you present again doesn't take the lifecycle into account. Also worth pointing out that protein bioavailability and amino acid profiles are ignored. Unrelated but since you brought the topic up, it would of course make sense that releasing vast amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere that took millions of years to bind into the earth in mere decades might be a bad idea. Then again, we're only guessing there as we…

> Then again, we're only guessing there as well. Umm, no, we are not guessing. But I see where this will end, so let's stop this discussion right here.

Yea, I imagine you’d link some projections 50 years into the future, and I’d call you a moron for believing in such things. You’ve already branded me a climate change denier in your head so that wouldn’t serve you well in a serious discussion.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#445

Post by flanked-evergl »

oezi wrote: post #349
flanked-evergl wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not how tariffs are being used and the actual reality is that manufacturing and production is being transferred to places with much worse environmental and labour practices that are also antagonistic to the west. Germany "greeniefied" their economy by just outsourcing energy production to Russia and in the processes ensured 10,000 of Ukranians had to die. This needs to stop. Nobody wins from it, everyone lose…

Come on. It is not Germany's fault that Putin is a madman. Choosing cheap gas over more expensive gas, oil and dirty coal was a win-win. Until Putin was too irrational. Btw.: more than 50.000 Ukrainian soldiers are dead by the latest estimates I have read.

They chose Russian gas over nuclear. It's not their fault Putin was a madman, but Trump warned them this would happen, and they decided they don't care and carried right on.

I guarantee you if Europe heeded Trumps warning and cut Russia off instead of outsourcing energy production to them, Ukraine would not have been invaded. Even today, there is still Russian gas flowing through Ukraine into Europe. It's unconscionable, and Europeans should be ashamed that they elected such traitors for leaders.

Putin invaded because he thought nobody would do shit, because everyone was signalling nobody would do shit. Biden said he won't do shit and stopped selling weapons to Ukraine and lifted Russian sanctions. Obama did not do shit the last time with Crimea and Donbas. Germans were laughing at Trump who warned them that Putin will start shit if they continue like this, and for the most part, Europeans just increased their dependence on Russian gas.

The moral culpability here could not be clearer. Of course Putin bears ultimate responsibility, but he was empowered and encouraged by spineless corrupt pathetic western leaders.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#446

Post by flanked-evergl »

contagiousflow wrote: post #371
flanked-evergl wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's much better for farming to be moved to countries with less labour and environmental regulations.

That concern has already been discussed https://www.regeringen.dk/media/13261/aftale-om-et-groent-da...

The Uyghurs slaves making your iPhone are grateful that you discussed how much better off the world is.

Some serious "but who will pick the cotton vibes".

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#447

Post by pvaldes »

kvgr wrote: post #291
rob74 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what are you proposing? Just do nothing about climate change, as we have done before, and have worse social consequences in the near future rather than now? Denmark is more at risk from rising sea levels than other countries ( https://cphpost.dk/2023-02-17/news/rising-sea-levels-threate... ), so they want to do something about it.

The food needs to be produced somewhere. If denmark exports, then the food will be missing somewhere. So you do not fix "climate change". You only fix local effects of agriculture. I am not saying it is good or bad. But it def makes denmark poorer.

The idea that each country must culture every product to assure the supply chain is outdated by a generation in Europe.

A lot of those vegetables are produced yet in Almeria. A lot of milk that goes to Italy is produced in France. EU has this issue checked from the first minute and created a supranational agriculture system based on quotes.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#448

Post by kvgr »

pvaldes wrote: post #447
kvgr wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food needs to be produced somewhere. If denmark exports, then the food will be missing somewhere. So you do not fix "climate change". You only fix local effects of agriculture. I am not saying it is good or bad. But it def makes denmark poorer.

The idea that each country must culture every product to assure the supply chain is outdated by a generation in Europe. A lot of those vegetables are produced yet in Almeria. A lot of milk that goes to Italy is produced in France. EU has this issue checked from the first minute and created a supranational agriculture system based on quotes.

Yes, and then somene comes and says, we produce too much beef... well yeah, somebody else will have to do it.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#449

Post by bryanlarsen »

mollerhoj wrote: post #438
bryanlarsen wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of animals we grow far more grain than we need, giving us a substantial amount of necessary slack. If there is a wide spread crop failure, the price of grain rises, causing ranchers to sell breeding stock they can no longer afford to feed. Then humans then eat the grain instead of the animals.

Growing x100 times the amount of food needed isn’t ‘slack’, its production for export (or feeding pigs to export). We could cut out farmland by 50% and still have more than enough to feed our own population. This food security argument would only hold if there was any possibility of us actually not being able to feed our population.

100X? A chicken is 1.8x and a pig is 3X. A cow is 12X, but that'd only be a relevant figure if humans could eat grass.

Re: Denmark will plant 1B trees and convert 10% of farmland into forest

#450

Post by quinnirill »

logtrees wrote: post #203
jojobas wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already tree harvesters that start with a standing tree and end on a ready log with waste mulched. It's only a matter of time it's AI controlled. The future has no jobs.

Oh yeah that far into the future is singularity so at that point, what we're all doing is just interfacing with the AI. :) But I think that's still a while away, most likely? Or who knows, maybe sooner lol.

Seeing a modern foresting machine in action was one of the most daunting experiences of my life. Making an AI drive it is pointless, it’s already at such high productivity that the transportation is a much more meaningful bottleneck now.

I literally passed it by while walking the dog on the morning it started, and just 10 minutes later when returning, a neat and large pile of logs stripped of branches was at the roadside and a handful of trees were gone. Two days later when taking the same route, the forest was no more, just a handful of funny trees sitting on barren mudlands surrounded by enormous piles of logs marked and tagged for transport to various destinations.

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