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Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#441

Post by vosper »

shmatt wrote: post #171
protonbob wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically you're wasting the interviewees time and breaking the law by admitting that you won't hire a citizen who would do the job just as well.

The law says I can’t submit the I-140 application, which I follow the law and I don’t submit it. As a people manager it’s a heartbreaking conversation to have - to tell a report their dream of staying beyond their visa is gone The law says every line manager needs to do their own industry pulse check every time an i-140 is submitted. And this is the only legal way to pulse check (advertise a ghost job). It would be m…

> The law says I can’t submit the I-140 application, which I follow the law and I don’t submit it.

Sorry, I'm still unclear. What rule says you can't submit your employee's green card application even though you've determined that you won't hire a citizen to do that job?

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#442

Post by rapjr9 »

jollyllama wrote: post #394

Every time I get asked to look at resumes, we get loads of ghost applicants. In the first days when the job listing is fresh, floods of resumes with identical formatting, all over-qualified, with similar sounding projects that read like buzzword ad-libs. Of course, they never call back.

Seems like a natural reaction to ghost jobs. Post ghost applications in order to "sample the market" to find out which jobs might be real.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#443

Post by throwaway2037 »

fggdt wrote: post #122
cj wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Many (especially smaller) companies don't want to hire people who need visa sponsorship because it requires a decent amount of overhead. The company needs to have an immigration lawyer to prepare and submit paperwork, which many smaller companies don't want to bother with. FWIW it's illegal to require "US citizenship" in a job description. You can, however, say "eligible to work in the US". (The former would be d…

You're largely correct, as I understand it. You cant discriminate in favor of citizens vs permanent residents unless the job legally requires citizenship.

    > unless the job legally requires citizenship
Can you provide any examples?

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#444

Post by [deleted] »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #426
lotsofpulp wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true, but in reality, the US chains the engineers and doctors with the specter of losing their visa and arduous paperwork over their head so that they are coerced into selling their labor at an even lower price.

I'm the first to admit it isn't perfect, but that doesn't mean there is no net benefit. hundreds of thousands of people are paid market wages on H1B visas and many get green cards. On balance, this is good for consumers and citizens. I feel like people have a gut reaction to injustice and harm where they want to trash the whole system, not realizing that would be an even greater injustice and harm. It is a counterpro…

[deleted]

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#445

Post by digging »

tartoran wrote: post #255
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #61

I suspect the main reason it is hard to find a job is because interest rate induced layoffs, and remote work created too much competition. Five years ago I wasn’t competing with someone thousands of miles away with a phd who used to work at a faang. As for Ghost Jobs, I think they are skipping how many are just scams collecting data. There are many fake recruiters just posting job listings on behalf of companies they…

> There are many fake recruiters just posting job listings on behalf of companies they are not affiliated with. I wonder what's the best way to fight this back. Possibly inundate them with junk applications that their data becomes worthless?

> Possibly inundate them with junk applications that their data becomes worthless?

Even if you could 10x real applications with fake ones it wouldn't make their data worthless.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#446

Post by thecosas »

bangaroo wrote: post #376
lowercased wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Every recruiter on linkedin will swear blind that technology doesn't work like that, and they have to manually sort through and review hundreds of applications, and ATS don't just blindly trash/delete applications. But I can't believe your situation did not happen, and that similar things aren't happening regularly.

i'm a hiring manager for engineers and have worked with tons of ATSes and have yet to work with a system that does this. i'm not saying it isn't real, but even as a director with fairly privileged access to the hiring pipeline and near-administrative access to the ATS at a public company with tons of applicants, i've never even seen an option for this sort of thing. the ATS will tag candidates who meet certain key re…

First, thanks so much for sharing your experience on the HR/hiring side!

I recall in the multiple post-pandemic layoffs (especially in tech industry) that hiring teams were some of the first to be gutted. Made sense on a practical level since, at least in theory, layoffs > fewer job openings > fewer applicants to go through > less people needed to go through them.

However, I'm sure that's also led to more people applying for the fewer job openings that are available.

Does that seem like an accurate read? Maybe a contributing factor to lack of communication, even if it's simply a templated decline?

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#447

Post by bluGill »

pbmonster wrote: post #233
bluGill wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1b should be a bid salery to play not first to apply. That is we will allow x of them, when you sponser someone you commit to paying them some salary for the full term - no layoffs (you get fire for cause but that is a legal thing they can take you to court for , and the courts can force you to give back pay if it wasn't a good cause) , you should know your budget can afford them. , someone who really is the best ,…

Add "automatic green card at the end of three years if sponsored again by the same employer". Otherwise, the job would just be extremely cushy. Work the absolute bare minimum not to give cause for dismissal, and you're untouchable for the duration.

Companies should vet their emplopees better than that before hiring. Though there is potential to fire for cause if someone who should be able to do the work in 40 hour weeks isn't getting it done.

note that I added a 40 hour work week qualifier above.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#448

Post by bluefirebrand »

returningfory2 wrote: post #216
bluefirebrand wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is backwards CTO is not such an exceptional role that you can convince me that a company couldn't find a single person in America who would be qualified to take it It's also a highly sought after role, so people would generally be willing to relocate for a role like that H1Bs are designed to fill labour shortages, where your local labour market is saturated and you are struggling to find local talent or attr…

But arguably any labor shortage can be fixed by just having way higher wages. Like if Google is struggling to hire L3 entry level engineers, can't they just offer $1 million/year salary? Then of course they will get the people they want. To me, the point of H-1B and similar programs isn't "we can't get the individual staff we need". It's rather that at a society-wide level, having more software engineers at an overal…

> But arguably any labor shortage can be fixed by just having way higher wages

Not even remotely true, outside of unskilled labour work

> Like if Google is struggling to hire L3 entry level engineers, can't they just offer $1 million/year salary?

They can, but that won't suddenly make more people who are qualified for L3 entry level engineering positions to sprout into existence

It may cause people to re-skill to try and chase those positions.

It probably will have engineers from their competitors come to work for them

But then their competitors are in the same position facing a labour shortage. The shortage hasn't gone away!

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#449

Post by lotsofpulp »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #426
lotsofpulp wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true, but in reality, the US chains the engineers and doctors with the specter of losing their visa and arduous paperwork over their head so that they are coerced into selling their labor at an even lower price.

I'm the first to admit it isn't perfect, but that doesn't mean there is no net benefit. hundreds of thousands of people are paid market wages on H1B visas and many get green cards. On balance, this is good for consumers and citizens. I feel like people have a gut reaction to injustice and harm where they want to trash the whole system, not realizing that would be an even greater injustice and harm. It is a counterpro…

I do not want to "trash the whole system", but when I see laws crafted specifically and solely to depress labor prices, it is reasonable to get emotional and feel morally superior. Why else would we give work authorization to a person, but then restrict them to a single employer such as with H1-B?

See also lower minimum wages and separate labor standards for poorer Mexican immigrants in agriculture, not to mention the complete lack of requirement for employers to ensure legal work authorization, and complete lack of consequences for employers that employ people without work authorization.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#450

Post by lupire »

shmatt wrote: post #14

I have to put out a ghost job req and interview every person applying within reason for every green card a direct report is applying for. I have to show there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job The main problem is: even if the interviewee knocks it out of the park, is an amazing engineer, I still am not interested in firing my OPT/h1b team member who can still legally work for 2-3 years. So…

Are you claiming the government requires you to lie to applicants to the "ghost" job?

Do you have evidence for that claim?

How did you hire the H1-B in The first place if you have direct direct personal evidence that citizen labor is available?

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