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Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

innocenceproject.org

441–450 of 514 posts

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#441

Reading the governor's letter it seems clear: 1. The witness who claimed Williams confessed provided non-publicly-available, but known-to-police, details about the case. This is very strong evidence that the confession was made to them. 2. The girlfriend's hesitation to go to police (she never asked for the reward money) is due to the fact that Williams threatened her family, which is a real threat considering his hi…

I was unable to find a "letter" from Missouri Governor Michael Parson about this case, but there is a press release from the Office of the Governor (url copied below). Here are some of the highlights of the Governor's statement to the press: The Governor's Office offers the following summary of the crime: "Marcellus Williams murdered Felicia Gayle on August 11, 1998. He burglarized Ms. Gayle’s home, ambushed her as s…

DNA evidence is notoriously iffy. I would not convict / not convict someone based purely on that. There's so many confounding factors. No one knows whose DNA was left. There's no way to know any DNA is 'the killers'. For all we know Gayle was having an affair. That doesn't explain the hard facts of why her stuff ended up in his car and she died in a manner that fits Williams' previous violent attacks.

Look... obviously I can't see he did or did not do it with incomplete information. However, it's pretty clear the innocence project is wildly manipulating the story. Moreover, the innocence project frequently calls out the iffi-ness of DNA evidence when it suits them, and are now claiming that we should listen only to it.

The truth is that the police recovered some DNA and it happened to be a man's they cannot connect. It could be her killer. It could not be. It could be a friend; it could be an affair partner; who knows. Either way, that man did not have all her stuff, and did not confess to the murder.

> DNA is proven science, and a true "unbiased analysis of the facts" would

DNA exists sure. but no one knows whose DNA was collected, and DNA matching is not 100%.

> none of the DNA evidence recovered from the crime scene matched Williams, and (2) the murder weapon was mishandled by state investigators, thereby destroying potentially exculpatory evidence that could have exonerated Williams.

Why would we expect any of the DNA to match? DNA of all sorts of people are everywhere. It doesn't seem there was much struggle. There was no rape. Exactly what do you expect to find?

Here is what the innocence project says (https://dpic-cdn.org/production/legacy/MarcellusWilliamsBoar...):

> The presence on the knife of a male DNA profile is also significant and worthy of additional testing and evaluation. In briefing, the State argued that the presence of DNA on a kitchen knife is unremarkable because anyone in the home could have used the knife. However, the State has long recognized the power of DNA found on a murder weapon and has relied upon such evidence to secure convictions. Here, the only male who lived in the home was the victim’s husband. Additional testing could be performed to develop a profile from the husband for comparison to the profile found on the knife. Assuming the victim’s husband (who is not and never was a suspect) is excluded as a match, it is then clear that the DNA matches the killer. Yet, law enforcement has never conducted such testing.

The innocence project is making the wild claim that the male DNA on the kitchen knife is certainly the killers. Let me ask you... how many men have you had at a dinner party? The idea that their DNA on the murder weapon should be sufficient to indict them, while all the other physical evidence linking Williams to the murder is not sufficient is... a stretch. Under this scheme, Mrs Gayle's dinner guest from the night before is more likely to be the murder culprit than the random attacker who just happens to have a ton of her personal belongings after she is killed? Come on. Let's live in the real world.

What we do know is that Williams has a track record of violence and then not doing anything to address it, while blaming others for his crimes.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#442

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

Doesn't the US privatized incarceration so it's basically a _free_ market, where shady deals are made to funnel more public money to private entities, and many people are incentivized to have as many people in prison as possible?

In that case, the cost on citizens for incarceration of people shouldn't be taken into account in the discussion around capital punishment because it's another issue altogether?

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#443

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

The right way to reduce the cost of incarcerating people is to end mass incarceration, not to kill people. Just shooting everybody on LWOP in the head won't do nearly as much.

Further, I think that we should have a high expense per prisoner. It should cost society something to imprison somebody, since crime is in many ways a product of society's systems and choices. A world with mass incarceration and a focus on reducing the cost of the prison system is a world that basically necessitates abuse.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter how heinous the murder was if you have the wrong suspect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DrsVhzbLzU > Priti Patel: this is about having deterrents... > Ian Hislop: It's not a deterrent killing the wrong people!

This is the second time in as many days I've seen some one use the argument that the severity of the crime meant the standards for conviction should somehow be less stringent. Sadly, I don't get the impression is an uncommon way of thinking.

Horribly, you regularly see this in supreme court cases. Some case has the conservatives denying a significant right to a criminal suspect and the decision will start with a lurid depiction of the crime they were convicted of through the denial of some right.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unrelated people recounted confessions he made to them that included details that were never made public Do you have a source? "The case against Mr. Williams turned on the testimony of two unreliable witnesses who were incentivized by promises of leniency in their own pending criminal cases and reward money. The investigation had gone cold until a jail inmate named Henry Cole, a man with a lengthy record, claimed t…

This is a lawyer's evasive way of hiding that these individuals revealed info that was not known to the public but was confirmed to be accurate by the police

I love how they try and paint the witnesses as unreliable because they have "records" while defending the guy who had 15 violent felonies and already serving time for armed robbery as a victim of the system. While also ignoring the testimony of the person he fenced the victim's laptop to and the victim's belongings being found in the car he used to drive to burglary turned murder.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#446

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

Doesn't the US privatized incarceration so it's basically a _free_ market, where shady deals are made to funnel more public money to private entities, and many people are incentivized to have as many people in prison as possible? In that case, the cost on citizens for incarceration of people shouldn't be taken into account in the discussion around capital punishment because it's another issue altogether?

[deleted]

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#447

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

Doesn't the US privatized incarceration so it's basically a _free_ market, where shady deals are made to funnel more public money to private entities, and many people are incentivized to have as many people in prison as possible? In that case, the cost on citizens for incarceration of people shouldn't be taken into account in the discussion around capital punishment because it's another issue altogether?

> Doesn't the US privatized

Isn't that less than 10% of the market (i.e. most prisons are not private)

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the second time in as many days I've seen some one use the argument that the severity of the crime meant the standards for conviction should somehow be less stringent. Sadly, I don't get the impression is an uncommon way of thinking.

Horribly, you regularly see this in supreme court cases. Some case has the conservatives denying a significant right to a criminal suspect and the decision will start with a lurid depiction of the crime they were convicted of through the denial of some right.

Sometimes the crime in case isn't actually that bad, so they have to dig for a lurid description of a different crime entirely.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#449
post #34
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose we lived in a world where it was possible to know someone's guilt or innocence with strictly 100% confidence. Curious to know if your views would change? Note the cost of incarceration is around ~$70k/year; enough to save lives, house people, heal people, feed people etc if put to other uses.

If murder is illegal, then it makes no difference if the state does it as punishment for committing murder. You’ve still sanctioned a murder, admittedly of a murderer. A civilised country accepts this simple logic and doesn’t sanction murder under any circumstances.

Robbery is also ilegal and yet, each month, the government takes about 50% of my wage in taxes.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#450
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article, the "evidence of guilt" is equally flimsy. And if we take "innocent until proven guilty" seriously, that means he not only should not have been executed, but should never have gone to jail in the first place...

A jury of his peers thought there was enough evidence to convict him and they did. At that point, he's "guilty until proven innocent".

It's a bit circular when people say "This court decision is wrong" to argue "But this is the decision that was made."
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