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Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

reuters.com

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Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#441

Post by Arch485 »

gryzzly wrote: post #222
Arch485 wrote: post #192

I'm genuinely curious: how is this not considered terrorism on Israel's part? (or is it considered terrorism?) From a tactical standpoint, this is very similar, and the only big difference I see is that this is technologically more advanced/more complex than just planting a bomb or something. If it's not terrorism, what is the differentiating factor(s)? *side note: I'm quite sure other western countries have used tac…

[flagged]

Yes, I am aware. I'm mostly asking why this operation, _in addition to_ what Hezbollah does, is not also considered terrorism.

Sounds like the tl;dr is that civilians aren't the primary target, therefore it is not terrorism.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#442

Post by borski »

ianburrell wrote: post #248
tptacek wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The supply chain for an iPhone is much stronger than for a Gold Alpha pager, and it's likely that the same thing will end up being true of these ICOM radios: they'll turn out to be designed and branded by ICOM, but actually manufactured and distributed by some random Eastern European outfit that paid to use ICOM as a skinsuit. That would never happen with an Apple device.

It is likely that they were authentic Icom devices. My understanding is that it is common for commercial radios to be programmed by distributor. Or Gold Alpha gave a good deal on pagers and radios and then were intercepted from warehouse. I don't think Icom would ever put name on generic radio, they make all their radios in Japan. It is like Toyota putting name on another car.

Toyota puts their engines in other cars all the time.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#443

Post by spondylosaurus »

borski wrote: post #419
spondylosaurus wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And very possibly in violation of the Geneva Convention's prohibition of "indiscriminate" attacks: Rule 12. Indiscriminate attacks are those: (a) which are not directed at a specific military objective; (b) which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or (c) which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by internation…

(a) Disrupt Hezbollah’s communications network and take out operatives. (b) The pagers were specifically distributed to Hezbollah operatives, not civilians. It targeted, by definition, the owners of those pagers, supporting the military objective. (c) It was limited, by definition. This contained tiny amount of explosives, focused very much on targeting the owner of the device, not “civilians or civilian objects with…

An explosive going off in a grocery store while people shop is "limited, by definition"?

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#444

Post by borski »

rmbyrro wrote: post #99
tptacek wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The supply chain for an iPhone is much stronger than for a Gold Alpha pager, and it's likely that the same thing will end up being true of these ICOM radios: they'll turn out to be designed and branded by ICOM, but actually manufactured and distributed by some random Eastern European outfit that paid to use ICOM as a skinsuit. That would never happen with an Apple device.

> The supply chain for an iPhone is much stronger Probably not strong enough to make it unreachable by a sophisticated agency like the Mossad.

With enough time, effort, and money? Sure.

But that would be many orders of magnitude more difficult that what they pulled off here, which was already very impressively difficult to pull off.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#445

Post by za3faran »

Arch485 wrote: post #192

I'm genuinely curious: how is this not considered terrorism on Israel's part? (or is it considered terrorism?) From a tactical standpoint, this is very similar, and the only big difference I see is that this is technologically more advanced/more complex than just planting a bomb or something. If it's not terrorism, what is the differentiating factor(s)? *side note: I'm quite sure other western countries have used tac…

If you saw how many standing ovations Mileikowsky got last month in his speech the US congress, I think it is very clear.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#447

Post by isoprophlex »

lxchase wrote: post #80

Anyone know how these devices may have been triggered that would be different from pagers? I imagine these radios would have to be modified to listen to multiple channels in case a radio was on a different channel than planned.

An entire integrated explosive device + detonator + radio circuit that leeches off the host device's power supply, that you activate by blasting an area with some out-of-band signal on a frequency that propagates far and wide?

Takes some upfront work but you don't have to mess with the device, any firmware that might leave traces, and the comms network itself. You just fly a big antenna nearby and everything goes boom.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#448

Post by beloch »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #278
Arch485 wrote: post #192

I'm genuinely curious: how is this not considered terrorism on Israel's part? (or is it considered terrorism?) From a tactical standpoint, this is very similar, and the only big difference I see is that this is technologically more advanced/more complex than just planting a bomb or something. If it's not terrorism, what is the differentiating factor(s)? *side note: I'm quite sure other western countries have used tac…

I think it should not be considered terrorism to the extent that the attack targeted legitimate military targets during a time of war — broadly speaking, combatants and other parts of the organization that affect its ability to wage war. Terrorism, at least least in my view, is an attack that either intentionally targets civilians or is truly indiscriminate, and is aimed at producing political cha age by causing fear…

[flagged]

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#449

Post by helpfulContrib »

pdabbadabba wrote: post #278
Arch485 wrote: post #192

I'm genuinely curious: how is this not considered terrorism on Israel's part? (or is it considered terrorism?) From a tactical standpoint, this is very similar, and the only big difference I see is that this is technologically more advanced/more complex than just planting a bomb or something. If it's not terrorism, what is the differentiating factor(s)? *side note: I'm quite sure other western countries have used tac…

I think it should not be considered terrorism to the extent that the attack targeted legitimate military targets during a time of war — broadly speaking, combatants and other parts of the organization that affect its ability to wage war. Terrorism, at least least in my view, is an attack that either intentionally targets civilians or is truly indiscriminate, and is aimed at producing political cha age by causing fear…

[flagged]

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#450

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

Arch485 wrote: post #192

I'm genuinely curious: how is this not considered terrorism on Israel's part? (or is it considered terrorism?) From a tactical standpoint, this is very similar, and the only big difference I see is that this is technologically more advanced/more complex than just planting a bomb or something. If it's not terrorism, what is the differentiating factor(s)? *side note: I'm quite sure other western countries have used tac…

I'm not convinced this was a terror attack and I think Israel is within its rights to target Hezbollah, but here's a question:

If the assailant and target were reversed, would Western media hesitate at all to call it terrorism?

Or, forget Hezbollah and Israel. If ISIS had detonated thousands of explosive devices all over, e.g., the UK injuring and killing hundreds of UK military personnel and some civilians, would that not immediately be condemned as an act of terror, by everyone in the entire world, East and West? And rightly so?

If the designation of "terror" or "not terror" depends on who's attacking and whom they are targeting, then there's not much point in talking about terror or not terror at all.

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