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Learning to Reason with LLMs

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Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems opposite to me. Imagine all the amazing technological advancements, etc. If there wasn't something like that what would you be looking forward to? Everything would be what it has already been for years. If this evolves it helps us open so many secrets of the universe.

These advancements are there to benefit the top 1%, not the working class.

That's a governing problem.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#442

Just did some preliminary testing on decrypting some ROT cyphertext which would have been viable for a human on paper. The output was pretty disappointing: lots of "workish" steps creating letter counts, identifying common words, etc, but many steps were incorrect or not followed up on. In the end, it claimed to check its work and deliver an incorrect solution that did not satisfy the previous steps. I'm not one to j…

Hmm, are you sure it was using the o1 model and not gpt4o? I've been using the o1 model and it does consistently well at solving rotation ciphers.

On my machine just works with 4o

https://chatgpt.com/share/66e34020-33dc-800d-8ab8-8596895844...

With no drama. I'm not sure the bot answer is correct, but looks correct.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#443
post #87

Reading through the Chain of Thought for the provided Cipher example (go to the example, click "Show Chain of Thought") is kind of crazy...it literally spells out every thinking step that someone would go through mentally in their head to figure out the cipher (even useless ones like "Hmm"!). It really seems like slowing down and writing down the logic it's using and reasoning over that makes it better at logic, simi…

Seriously. I actually feel as impressed by the chain of thought, as I was when ChatGPT first came out. This isn't "just" autocompletion anymore, this is actual step-by-step reasoning full of ideas and dead ends and refinement, just like humans do when solving problems. Even if it is still ultimately being powered by "autocompletion". But then it makes me wonder about human reasoning, and what if it's similar? Just fo…

that's my assessment too. there's even a phenomenon I've observed both in others and myself, when thrust into a new field and given a task to complete, we do it to the best of our ability, which is often sod all. so we ape the things we've heard others say, roughly following the right chain of reasoning by luck, and then suddenly say something that in hind sight, with proper training, we realise was incredibly stupid. we autocomplete and then update with rlhf.

we also have a ton of heuristics that trigger a closer look and loading of specific formal reasoning, but by and large, most of our thought process is just auto complete.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have better career ideas, you should not continue. The thing is it is very hard to predict how the world will change (and by how much from very little to a revolutionary change) with all these new changes. Only licensed and regulated professions (doctors/lawyers/pilots etc) might remain high earning for long (and they too are not guaranteed). It really is worth a relook on what you want to do in life while see…

I don't have any ideas whatsoever.

Then talk to more and more people, some of whom will have ideas on what they would prefer in the changing world.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#446

Student here. Can someone give me one reason why I should continue in software engineering that isn't denial and hopium?

Software engineering contains a lot more than just writing code. If we somehow get AGI, it'll change everything, not just SWE. If not, my belief is that there will be a lot more demand for good SWEs to harness the power of LLMs, not less. Use them to get better at it faster.

Agree, SWE as a profession is not going anywhere, unless we AGI, and that would mean all the rules change anyway.

Actually now is really good time to get to SWE. The craft contains lots of pointless cruft that LLM:s cut through like knife through hot butter.

I’m actually enjoying my job now more than ever since I dont’t need to pretend to like the abysmal tools the industry forces on us (like git), and can focus mostly on value adding tasks. The amount of tiresome shoveling has decreased considerably.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#447
Peter Thiel was widely criticized this spring when he said that AI "seems much worse for the math people than the word people."

So far, that seems to be right. The only thing o1 is worse at is writing.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#448

This is incredible. In April I used the standard GPT-4 model via ChatGPT to help me reverse engineer the binary bluetooth protocol used by my kitchen fan to integrate it into Home Assistant. It was helpful in a rubber duck way, but could not determine the pattern used to transmit the remaining runtime of the fan in a certain mode. Initial prompt here [0] I pasted the same prompt into o1-preview and o1-mini and both c…

Isn't there a big "Share" button at the top right of the chatgpt interface? Or are you using another front end?

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#449
post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that is impressive! How were you able to use o1-preview? I pay for ChatGPT, but on chatgpt.com in the model selector I only see 4o, 4o-mini, and 4. Is o1 in that list for you, or is it somewhere else?

Likely phased rollout throughout the day today to prevent spikes

“Throughout the day” lol. Advanced voice mode still hasn’t shown up.

They seem to care more about influencers than paying supporters.

Re: Learning to Reason with LLMs

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software engineering contains a lot more than just writing code. If we somehow get AGI, it'll change everything, not just SWE. If not, my belief is that there will be a lot more demand for good SWEs to harness the power of LLMs, not less. Use them to get better at it faster.

This thing is doing planning and ascending the task management ladder. It's not just spitting out code anymore.

Sure. But the added value of SWE is not ”spitting code”. Let’s see if I need to calibrate my optimism once I take the new model to a spin.
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