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DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

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Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#441

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

jihadjihad wrote: post #259

"Over a century ago, Congress passed the Sherman Antitrust Act to protect competition in the marketplace. As the Supreme Court has explained, the “central evil” addressed by Section 1 of that Act is “the elimination of competition that would otherwise exist,” including competition on prices. When the Sherman Act was passed, an anticompetitive scheme might have looked like robber barons shaking hands at a secret meeti…

We need a total revision of the antitrust act to respond to all the ways in which mega corp distort the market and limit competition with it being a full monopoly.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#442

Post by HelloMcFly »

eldridgea wrote: post #424
ndesaulniers wrote: post #417

Companies are culluding to suppress wages by algorithm, too. Look up a company called Aon, and their product called Radford Data & Analytics.

~2019 I led a team of highly qualified security R&D folks inside Cisco (we were part of an acquisition), these folks were effectively highly specialized SWEs. But because the title was something like "security researcher" it was compared against the closet Radform ladder which was closer to to compliance officer. This meant the specialists were on a ladder with often lower pay than a standard SWE, and I couldn't shif…

If anyone else runs into this issue, typically the direct route for things like this is to get involved a discussion with someone in your Total Rewards / Global Compensation team. These are usually the people that confirm the mapping of internal positions to benchmarks, and there is huge between-organizations variability in the quality behind that process.

Many times normal managers or more generalist HR Partners (especially if more junior) may not appreciate that this is a data error vs. a frustrated hiring manager trying to tell you their subjective feelings are more correct than policy.

That having been said: I still think the whole thing stinks.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#443

Post by hn72774 »

HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #323
hn72774 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we are at it, make it easier for mom-and-pop landlords to rent out their homes so that they can compete with the resources of PE firms. Too many renter protections where I live and the consensus is don't ever try to be a landlord here. One bad tenant/squatter can bankrupt you.

Let's find a solution that doesn't poke even more holes in what little social safety net the US has.

One could argue that a owner of one single family home that could be turned into a rental loses out on the social safety net of diversified income and someday retirement, and is subsidising renters on the government's behalf.

Most of us are a couple events of bad luck away from homelessness. Mon-and-pop landlords included.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#444

Post by ndesaulniers »

sithadmin wrote: post #438
ndesaulniers wrote: post #417

Companies are culluding to suppress wages by algorithm, too. Look up a company called Aon, and their product called Radford Data & Analytics.

Not just by algorithm. In the US, many large employers utilize 'The Work Number' by Equifax for employment verification services, and share details about individual employees as granular as individual paycheck disbursements. This information is visible to other employers that buy in to the scheme, and obviously favors the employer in salary negotiations with a candidate.

Right, this indirection seems to give them a "throat to choke" the next time this goes to court.

Opt out: https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#445

Post by staplers »

ineedaj0b wrote: post #426

This case -like the Sackler case- I hope they burn the company down with malice to make an example. I have similar feelings about Airbnb. I think they caused a good deal of harm, but I'm more kind to the argument they are allowing market forces to act. People are priced out by mid-level wealth holders in nice locations who rent out to tourists; homes young families could have enjoyed. Airbnb could be a net harm on so…

  I hope they burn the company down
Will probably just be a "fine" (got caught tax) and nothing changes. It's an explicit signal to keep doing it unless the punishment is worse than the profit.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#446

Post by text0404 »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #198
toomuchtodo wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support price regulation when called for. Your hyperbole is...not congruent with reality, considering the incredible agriculture subsidies provided and automobile tariffs. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/08/economists... https://www.ncsl.org/financial-services/price-gouging-state-... https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases... From a paid Matt Stoller BIG ( https://thebignewslette…

>I support price regulation when called for. Your hyperbole is...not congruent with reality, considering the incredible agriculture subsidies provided and automobile tariffs. The outrageous profiteering in food and groceries is not with the hyper-subsidized agriculture industry that grows food and raises livestock, but up the supply chain in the middle-men who buy this to process and package it (especially meatpackin…

> The problem is the needless and protectionist laws and regulations. If you want to see the effectiveness of monopoly regulation, look at California's PG&E vs Texas' deregulated electricity provider market. Californians are paying outrageous bills, meanwhile Texans have their choice of paying different electricity providers, and thus have much lower electric rates.

They really don't:

- https://www.texastribune.org/2024/05/23/texas-electricity-bi...

- https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/22/texas-pauses-electri...

... and have we already forgot that 250+ people died and 3/4 of the state was left without power during a winter storm? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis

Even _if_ Texans were paying less on their monthly bills, does that matter if ERCOT's negligence ends up getting people killed and causing massive power outages during times when its needed most critically?

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#447

Post by ndesaulniers »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #442
eldridgea wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

~2019 I led a team of highly qualified security R&D folks inside Cisco (we were part of an acquisition), these folks were effectively highly specialized SWEs. But because the title was something like "security researcher" it was compared against the closet Radform ladder which was closer to to compliance officer. This meant the specialists were on a ladder with often lower pay than a standard SWE, and I couldn't shif…

If anyone else runs into this issue, typically the direct route for things like this is to get involved a discussion with someone in your Total Rewards / Global Compensation team. These are usually the people that confirm the mapping of internal positions to benchmarks, and there is huge between-organizations variability in the quality behind that process. Many times normal managers or more generalist HR Partners (es…

HR is not your friend. Corporate Confidential by Cynthia Shapiro is a recommended read.

My advice; get a better offer elsewhere, then see if HR wants to pay you your worth.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#448

Post by CPLX »

staplers wrote: post #445
ineedaj0b wrote: post #426

This case -like the Sackler case- I hope they burn the company down with malice to make an example. I have similar feelings about Airbnb. I think they caused a good deal of harm, but I'm more kind to the argument they are allowing market forces to act. People are priced out by mid-level wealth holders in nice locations who rent out to tourists; homes young families could have enjoyed. Airbnb could be a net harm on so…

I hope they burn the company down Will probably just be a "fine" (got caught tax) and nothing changes. It's an explicit signal to keep doing it unless the punishment is worse than the profit.

In the case of RealPage that doesn’t seem like the most probable outcome. They’ve been caught red-handed engaged in blatantly illegal price-fixing conduct that has harmed millions of American families.

They’re up against the DOJ and plenty of red state AGs too, all signs point to them being nailed to the wall. At least at a corporate level, we don’t have a good track record of sending execs to jail of course.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#449

Post by bogwog »

ang_cire wrote: post #421
bogwog wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Competitors can converge on a higher price instead of a lower price. It's not just one direction. They just need to do it via public price signaling to stay out of legal trouble. I don't understand what you're saying. Are you saying that companies are colluding, but not really because the prices are public? Most prices are public, just walk into any supermarket or open Amazon.com and you'll see public prices. If a…

> If a company is able to price a product above their competitors and still succeed (e.g. by investing more in marketing), that's legal too. Yes, but it also runs counter to the idea that free markets tend to drive prices down through competition. In reality, 1 of 2 things happens: a) companies try to differentiate their products enough to not be direct competitors (e.g. exclusive content on streaming platforms, or p…

Sorry, but that is nonsense and I have no idea what point you're trying to make. You're saying that competition doesn't drive down prices by giving two examples of how companies avoid competition.

Re: DOJ sues realpage for algorithmic pricing scheme that harms renters

#450

Post by jjav »

amy-petrik-214 wrote: post #235
kelnos wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This line of thinking is what leads to situations like San Francisco, where price controls on housing lead to few developers willing to build there. Not sure what "price controls" you're talking about, but the reason it's expensive to build in SF (which reduces the appeal for builders) is zoning, the byzantine planning process, the ability of local residents to effectively block or delay projects, and weaponized en…

price controls is rent control. SF. see also: NYC "you can raise rent by X% per year AT MOST, no more than that" if inflation / supply/demand is >X%, the landlord eats it. Thus landlording might be for some, more appealing elsewhere. Cali also has prop 13 i.e. rent control on real estate taxes. So if I bought my house in 1955, I might pay $100/year in property tax, the guy who just bought a completely identical house…

> So if I bought my house in 1955, I might pay $100/year in property tax

Ok it's fine to point out drawbacks of Prop 13, but making up stuff doesn't help.

Prop 13 baseline assessment used 1976 values, so buying in 1955 doesn't make any difference, it still started on 1976 valuation.

It goes up 2% every year, so for this scenario we're talking about a house that was worth well under 10K in 1976. The median house price in the US in 1976 was 48K (so surely higher than that in California).

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