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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#441

Post by iamleppert »

If any part of your face, voice, or any text that is ever written by you, or any kind of software or code you have written, has ever touched an Apple product, you better be prepared to kiss the ring of Tim Cook & Apple if you want to even THINK about making a dollar of it. Apple gets their cut, and yes, if you don't or can't pay they will shut you down. Not even your business account, they will come for your personal accounts, phones and any devices you own or have owned in the past and shut them down as well.

Let it be a lesson to anyone trying to skirt out of paying their fair share, Apple is due AT LEAST 30% of what you make, plus developer fees. If you don't like it, TOUGH LUCK, PAY UP!

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#442

Post by matwood »

datavirtue wrote: post #281
gumby271 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it's the only option across the OS. There's no reason this option couldn't exist with other options, built by the app developer so it cost Apple nothing.

The problem is that the fee is not charged to the Apple user on a line item in addition to the content price. Like all markets are supposed to operate. It's information hiding.

Do you know the markup at any retailer? Maybe in aggregate if I look at the financial statements or some specialty retailers like car dealers?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#443

Post by kelnos »

rondini wrote: post #405
delecti wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The line is "can you use the purchase solely in the app distributed through Apple's infrastructure". I think their fee is outrageous, but that does seem like a defensible line.

Except they're stepping far over that line! You can use a Patreon subscription on all platforms, same as a Spotify or Netflix or Kobo... and yet they want a cut even when they have no part in the payment processing. Totally indefensible imo.

No, I think you misunderstand. It's not "can you use it elsewhere?", it's "if the user chose to, could they use the purchase solely inside the context of the Apple ecosystem?"

That is, if someone wants to, they can use Patreon's iOS app, not interact with Patreon in any other way, and get all of the benefits available to patrons.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#444

Post by giancarlostoro »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #341
giancarlostoro wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to put an end to this is if more people stop installing apps that are just website skins, and just use the open web instead.

Apps are now forcing you to use their website skin even though its damn easy to offer a mobile web alternative that doesn't squander ever precious local storage.

Reddit is probably the worst at this, really annoying.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#445

Post by nodamage »

kmeisthax wrote: post #259
dangus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to guess that the antitrust lawsuits don't stick because iOS has a 27% global marketshare, and because Apple has a very well-paid legal department. The difference between iOS and a game console in terms of antitrust law is "not a whole lot." The EU has been able to get further with restricting Apple's policies because their laws and courts work a lot differently than the US courts. The EU is all about prese…

Google's legal department is also very well-paid, but they've lost both the Epic lawsuit and the DOJ lawsuit. In some markets (e.g. search) they have dramatically more market share, but 27% of phones is still high enough to have some market power. Antitrust doesn't care about the market share, it cares about actions taken to restrain competition. Government-granted monopolies (e.g. copyright law) have partial antitru…

> Antitrust doesn't care about the market share, it cares about actions taken to restrain competition.

Not sure how this myth keeps getting perpetuated. The antitrust laws that are relevant to the lawsuits against Apple (specifically Epic's and the DOJ's) absolutely care about market share for the purposes of proving monopolization or attempted monopolization under the Sherman Act.

(Yes, technically it is true that some antitrust violations can occur with low levels of market share, such as price fixing, but those are not really relevant to the lawsuits against Apple.)

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#446

Post by josephg »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #341
giancarlostoro wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to put an end to this is if more people stop installing apps that are just website skins, and just use the open web instead.

Apps are now forcing you to use their website skin even though its damn easy to offer a mobile web alternative that doesn't squander ever precious local storage.

Which apps? The only one I know about is Reddit, where the web version is crippled compared to the app. (You can’t read all the comments). But old.reddit.com works fine on mobile - even if you have to constantly zoom in and out.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#447

Post by abfan1127 »

danShumway wrote: post #403
queuebert wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of like how realtors make more money on a house transaction than the closing attorneys who draw up all the paperwork and execute it legally.

Or, I would argue, like if a realtor made more money off of the sale than the person selling the house made.

that is easily true. You buy a house for $500k. A year later, you decide to move. The house's value remains at $500k. Realtor commissions of 6% cost you $30k. You lost $30k on the total transaction, the realtor made $30k (not including the original buy).

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#448

Post by tivert »

NekkoDroid wrote: post #79
dangus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to guess that the antitrust lawsuits don't stick because iOS has a 27% global marketshare, and because Apple has a very well-paid legal department. The difference between iOS and a game console in terms of antitrust law is "not a whole lot." The EU has been able to get further with restricting Apple's policies because their laws and courts work a lot differently than the US courts. The EU is all about prese…

> The US will let corproations do whatever they want until they are 1990s Microsoft-level dominant. *The US will let corporations do whatever they want while they are giving "gifts" and "gratuities" to the relevant judges.

> *The US will let corporations do whatever they want while they are giving "gifts" and "gratuities" to the relevant judges.

Cite please? IIRC, the present day antitrust precedents were set in the 70s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law#Ri....

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#449

Post by mullingitover »

kmeisthax wrote: post #376
mullingitover wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Antitrust doesn't care about the market share, it cares about actions taken to restrain competition. Yes, but "only when it harms both allocative efficiency and raises the prices of goods above competitive levels or diminishes their quality."[1] [1] https://law.stanford.edu/press/congress-hears-challenges-to-...

Killing per-creation billing and demanding a 30% cut that will be passed onto the consumer sounds like a pretty obvious example to me.

I'm not going to fall all over myself defending Apple, but it's not as cut and dry as being a price gouge. Apple spent mountains of money on R&D to create wildly popular consumer devices, build and maintain the systems, build and maintain infrastructure, security systems, app distribution systems, and operate payment systems.

There's no reason Patreon must use Apple's store. They could run their whole iOS experience out of the web site. iPhone users could use Patreon to their hearts' content, and Apple wouldn't collect a dime. So it's almost as if the services Apple is offering do have value, and people are just arguing about the bill.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#450

Post by phkahler »

Taken to an extreme, Patreon just drops the app and requires mobile users to use a web interface. Then what? Apple tells browser makers they have to skim a cut of any payments to any sites and give it to Apple or else your browser isn't allowed in the app store?
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