This just does not seem plausible. Sure, I understand the claim that Cuban statistics are falsified because the Cuban government is obviously biased about whether "Cuba is good", but the claims about Cuban emigration are coming from groups that are very distinctly anti-Cuban themselves; why should I trust them to tell the truth about Cuba, particularly when lying about your enemies is incredibly effective, common, and completely unpunished?
10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023
441–450 of 1001 posts
Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023
#442Note that it's only the US that has an embargo against Cuba. The rest of the world trades pretty freely with them.
> Note that it's only the US that has an embargo against Cuba. And that's the only embargo that matters. Given a choice between an embargo by the US or embargo by the rest of the world, cuba and every country in the world would choose 'the rest of the world'. Especially so for cuba since it's just right off the coast of florida. > The rest of the world trades pretty freely with them. No they do not.
> Given a choice between an embargo by the US or embargo by the rest of the world, cuba and every country in the world would choose 'the rest of the world'.
No way is this true. Look at this list of countries by biggest trade partners (import & export) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_leading_t....
You really think countries will willing choose to trade with the USA over the rest of the world when it isn't the biggest destination for their exports nor their major source of imports? Why would they do that exactly?
Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023
#443I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…
> I'm not concerned about the crime You may not be concerned about the crime, but many voters are. The author of the article you linked to also exhorts the Somali immigrant community to not engage in crime. > because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups…
>History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups aren't able to integrate with the host society after multiple generations, and remain ghettoized with low employment and high crime rates (vastly higher than the native population, for certain categories of crime).
Twice as many Britons joined ISIS as served in the British military. https://www.newsweek.com/twice-many-british-muslims-fighting...> The new ISIS members are not first-generation recent arrivals; they are the children and grandchildren of those who arrived decades ago.
Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
A bunch of Floridians who are, or are descended from, folks who had their land and businesses seized during the revolution are holding grudges and won’t let go of them until they’re given their stuff back or a ton of money, which, this far on, isn’t happening. Florida is important in Presidential elections. US elections are structured such that dumb stuff like a relatively small—but loud—and also hopeless interest in…
I think that's really underselling the political persecution that many have suffered in Cuba. It's far and away from just wanting reparations for land grabs. We have sanctions on Cuba for the same reason we have sanctions on Russia and Venezuela now- we don't want to fund what their government is doing, and allying with them gives us little to nothing in return. That said, it's pretty obvious that economic sanctions…
> allying with them gives us little to nothing in return.
Recent events have shown that to be very much not the case. Over the past few weeks we've had news of the Russian Navy paying port calls and the Chinese building major signals intelligence capabilities. Wouldn't it be better to have them as an ally?
It's always interesting to contrast our relationships with Cuba vs Vietnam. We fought a long hot war with Vietnam yet today we have good relations with them. Obviously we can't say we would have a good relationship with Cuba if we had been nicer to them but it certainly makes me think.
Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023
#445Earlier quoted context omitted.
These jobs are low-paying because they're broadly unproductive. If some of them weren't doing these jobs, the wages paid for them at the margin would increase. We are vastly better off importing more skilled immigrants to high-income countries, compared to unskilled ones.
They are skilled. Try taking the best and brightest out of Silicon Valley and put them on farms, orchards, and in construction, and see how well they do. This elitist attitude that low-paid workers are "unskilled" workers is bullshit and needs to go.
It means, invariably, that they work positions that do not require high education. That's it. Any other euphemism in its place would just be in service of the same meaning.
Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023
#446I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. For example, in this article is about white collar crime, it points out that many Somali-Americans were professionals back in Somalia. I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency unt…
> I'm not concerned about the crime because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until
Would you share the same opinion if you were a victim?
Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023
#447As a Cuban that is currently living in Cuba, I think it might be useful to voice my opinions, as I have read some comments here which I consider less than accurate in some respects. To avoid typing too much, I'll summarize with... bullet points? * The published figure of 10 million people is already outdated. First, they are official figures, which means that they are not telling the truth. Second, six months have el…
The situation sounds dire. Why haven't you left (it seems you have the opportunity)?
I do have the opportunity to leave, yes. But, on the one hand, there's immediate family that depends on me (and not just economically.) On the other hand, I'm approaching an age which I feel does not makes me very hireable, so to speak, despite my 30+ years of experience in the field.
Yes, the situation is dire; and I'll be here to witness how this unfolds :|
(thanks a lot reading me!)
Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023
#448It's interesting reading the opinions in the comments on this thread. As a non-US person, I don't have a strong opinion on Cuba. I'd like to visit someday but don't know much about it other than the headlines. Reading the comments here it sounds like a pariah state on the level of North Korea. With 1m people leaving in a year, it clearly has its issues - but lots of the comments here are a good example of how your co…
If anything Cuba is heavely romanticized outside the US I believe.
Maybe it used to be, probably because the Castro and Guevara rebellion is a great story. But today I feel that everyone knows that it backfired and the country is in shambles due to terrible totalitarian leaders.
Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023
#449perhaps it's time to normalize relations with their government and end the blockade.
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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023
#450Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm not concerned about the crime You may not be concerned about the crime, but many voters are. The author of the article you linked to also exhorts the Somali immigrant community to not engage in crime. > because that seems like a somewhat higher tendency until the 2nd and 3rd generation is able to make it into established society. History and data from various European nations suggest that some immigrant groups…
> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…
>One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault?
I will speak from the perspective of one who emigrated to the US.
Every new group is initially seen as "the other". After some point, however, employers that hire "the other" may find that they can pay them less because there is less demand to hire them, and thus benefit financially, they hire more. As other employers follow suit, over time the salaries go up until they match that of other groups.
Their children benefit. The first generation of manual laborers and farmworkers begets the second generation of policemen, nurses, and soldiers begets the third generation of doctors and lawyers and professors.
In the US this has happened to Irish, Italians, Germans, Russians, Jews, East Asians, Indians, and Latinos. Why hasn't this happened to blacks (or has happened in substantially less numbers), despite the latter having the benefit of US citizenship and command of the English language from birth? Why hasn't this happened to the Somalians mentioned elsewhere? The Muslims of Dearborn?
Or look at Britain, where you have three groups from the Indian subcontinent:
* Indian Hindus
* Indian Sikhs
* Indian and Pakistani Muslims
Sikhs and Hindus have been very successful; they are more likely than the average to be part of the British middle class http://www.theguardian.com/money/2010/dec/14/middle-britain-...>. Muslims are, by contrast, worse than average in every single social measure despite being, racially speaking, indistinguishable from the other two groups to any outsider (since none knows, or cares, about the myriad of caste differences); they are all "Asians" in Britain. But the outcomes are completely different.
I will ask you the same question you posed. Are these differences in outcome the groups' fault? Or the host society's fault?