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This is a teenager

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Re: This is a teenager

#441

Post by lazyasciiart »

maxerickson wrote: post #363
imacomputertoo wrote: post #209

The conclusion of this data presentation is that so of these people are our collective responsibility, and I just wasn't convinced. I wish they had shown percentages with the visualization. They choose not to. I was underwhelmed by some points that seemed like they should have been more shocking. Look at the huge number of people in the many adverse experiences category who made it to college, and make a high salary.…

And, critically, how much are we willing to collectively sacrifice to move that percentage of people in a positive direction? This begs the question, at least to some extent. A big lesson of modern economics is that lots of things are win-win. For example, if you could eliminate years spent in prison by spending more on K-12 education, that looks like a big sacrifice if you don't have the prison counterfactual to com…

There are lots of interventions that show massive returns on investment in social welfare: a recent one has been extended availability of support for teenagers aging out of foster care, that takes their outcomes from something like "percentage who have become homeless within one year of their 18th birthday" from 70% down to 30%, and similar for arrest records and pregnancy among girls.

But, sadly, many people feel morally injured by spending money to proactively help adults who should be eating their own boots or whatever, and so it is less of a sacrifice to spend 5 times the money on jailing them instead.

Re: This is a teenager

#442

Post by richardlblair »

tomp wrote: post #404
no-dr-onboard wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teach conflict resolution skills to young children. This is pretty huge. A lot of my experience growing up in California during the 90s was "tell an adult" and "zero tolerance" coming down from school administrators. This is useful at a very young age, but it neglects to equip the children with agency for when the adults aren't around. You can't tell an adult when you're on the school bus and conflict breaks out. Y…

What do you mean? In the adult world, you'd just call the police. In the child world, sometimes you tell the adults, but they don't do anything, and the abuse continues. That's at least my experience with bullying in primary school. "Conflict resolution" and such virtue-signalling buzzwords don't work against violent bullies .

"You'd just call the police"

This is funny because you'd be hard pressed to find someone from a low income neighborhood calling the police.

Re: This is a teenager

#443

Post by Kamq »

James_K wrote: post #394
smegger001 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same economic systems you praise resulted mass starvations due famine killing millions in the process of trying to raise them out of poverty, (see the great leap forwards). Whats really lifting them out of poverty is the west exporting manufacturing to China. its not socialism pulling China out of poverty its mercantilism. As western cash is exchanged for Chinese products, its no surprise then that as poverty has…

> Whats really lifting them out of poverty is the west exporting manufacturing to China How does one export manufacturing? It is undeniable that that China has benefited from science and innovation, but these I would consider to be the fruits of all mankind. If anything, the west has tried its hardest to keep knowledge from China. China has only advanced by systematically breaking intellectual property law that the w…

> It is surely a great critique of the western system that China giving us stuff for free made us poorer.

I mean... is it? I can think of a few times that something previously expensive is suddenly made very cheap, and there's always a class of people that really don't do that well.

The closest situation I can think of is when the west was dumping food in africa [0][1]. Which made it harder for local farmers to make a living and made the food problems worse.

Unless you're talking about switching to an autocratic system where the elites can turn down cheap things in exchange for the long term benefits of local production. And, in theory, China might be able to, in theory, do that. I don't know their elite culture well enough to say otherwise. But modern Western elites definitely seem too short sighted to give that sort of power, so the critique seems like it falls flat.

[0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/world/americas/14iht-food...

[1]: https://www.npr.org/2006/10/13/6256274/u-s-european-subsidie...

Re: This is a teenager

#444

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

tomp wrote: post #404
no-dr-onboard wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teach conflict resolution skills to young children. This is pretty huge. A lot of my experience growing up in California during the 90s was "tell an adult" and "zero tolerance" coming down from school administrators. This is useful at a very young age, but it neglects to equip the children with agency for when the adults aren't around. You can't tell an adult when you're on the school bus and conflict breaks out. Y…

What do you mean? In the adult world, you'd just call the police. In the child world, sometimes you tell the adults, but they don't do anything, and the abuse continues. That's at least my experience with bullying in primary school. "Conflict resolution" and such virtue-signalling buzzwords don't work against violent bullies .

Sometimes the only resolution for a conflict is murder. Even in non stand your ground states.

I do not think you understand conflict resolution and should probably study it a bit before speaking so authoritatively. The basic gist of it is to identify the root cause of contention and identify the best practical solution. Most people bad at managing conflict fail to correctly identify the cause and empathize with the opposing view. Keep in mind - you do not need to agree with a perspective to understand it and failure to understand the other party is a responsibility shared jointly regardless of righteousness.

Re: This is a teenager

#445

Post by lazyasciiart »

anon291 wrote: post #326
richardlblair wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My context is Canada where getting killed at work wouldn't been an issue. In the context I'm speaking about it would likely drive opportunity in low income neighborhoods. Canada also have horrific city planning, so when I say people need to travel far I mean they need to spend up to 3 hours in some major (major for us) cities just to get groceries. The US is a whole other can of worms, I don't know how to solve those…

> Canada also have horrific city planning, so when I say people need to travel far I mean they need to spend up to 3 hours in some major (major for us) cities just to get groceries. I can't imagine anyone in a major US city spending 3 hours. Maybe rurally, but even the so-called 'food deserts' in a big city like LA ... it's just a few miles. At the end of the day, look... my mother taught in inner-city public schools…

> At the end of the day, look... my mother taught in inner-city public schools. I know the problems these kids have.

> I feel these policies end up failing because the policy makers are from whole families (And are likely extremely socially conservative in their own life) and can't imagine anything so debased.

I feel like you don't know any better than these policy makers you are dismissing.

Re: This is a teenager

#446

Post by coldtea »

imacomputertoo wrote: post #209

The conclusion of this data presentation is that so of these people are our collective responsibility, and I just wasn't convinced. I wish they had shown percentages with the visualization. They choose not to. I was underwhelmed by some points that seemed like they should have been more shocking. Look at the huge number of people in the many adverse experiences category who made it to college, and make a high salary.…

>The questions that remain are, how many people's lives could we improve and by how much? And, critically, how much are we willing to collectively sacrifice to move that percentage of people in a positive direction?

What exactly would we be "collectively sacrificing"?

Something like, 1% higher taxes?

Same taxes, but the use of some of the public money currently massively wasted in all kinds of endless sinks?

Re: This is a teenager

#447

Post by adamredwoods »

patwolf wrote: post #280

On the section for gun violence, it says "And these are the kids who witnessed gun violence", but the title says "See someone shot with gun". I'm curious which it is since gun violence encompasses things other than seeing someone shot.

For example, being held up at gunpoint.

Re: This is a teenager

#448

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

cameldrv wrote: post #364

The punchline is this: "It's 2021. The research participants are in their late-30s now, which means they've had plenty of time to shape their own destinies. But we can clearly see that the experiences of their childhood had a huge effect on their financial situation as adults. It also has an effect on virtually everything else in their lives." You cannot infer the direction of causality from this data, i.e. that the…

There are common statistical techniques to better get at causality in this situation. E.g. given how relatively unlikely and random "seeing someone getting shot while still a child" is, it should be fairly easy to match this up with other variables to tease out causality, e.g. just looking at someone in the same socioeconomic situation, same parental situation (i.e. married/single), and then comparing gunshot witnesses vs. others.

Re: This is a teenager

#449

Post by coldtea »

tomp wrote: post #404
no-dr-onboard wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teach conflict resolution skills to young children. This is pretty huge. A lot of my experience growing up in California during the 90s was "tell an adult" and "zero tolerance" coming down from school administrators. This is useful at a very young age, but it neglects to equip the children with agency for when the adults aren't around. You can't tell an adult when you're on the school bus and conflict breaks out. Y…

What do you mean? In the adult world, you'd just call the police. In the child world, sometimes you tell the adults, but they don't do anything, and the abuse continues. That's at least my experience with bullying in primary school. "Conflict resolution" and such virtue-signalling buzzwords don't work against violent bullies .

>In the adult world, you'd just call the police.

Good luck with that.

Re: This is a teenager

#450

Post by makeitdouble »

tomp wrote: post #404
no-dr-onboard wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teach conflict resolution skills to young children. This is pretty huge. A lot of my experience growing up in California during the 90s was "tell an adult" and "zero tolerance" coming down from school administrators. This is useful at a very young age, but it neglects to equip the children with agency for when the adults aren't around. You can't tell an adult when you're on the school bus and conflict breaks out. Y…

What do you mean? In the adult world, you'd just call the police. In the child world, sometimes you tell the adults, but they don't do anything, and the abuse continues. That's at least my experience with bullying in primary school. "Conflict resolution" and such virtue-signalling buzzwords don't work against violent bullies .

> In the adult world, you'd just call the police.

We deal with a lot more conflict than you're accounting for.

Someone can be shouting at a waiter at a restaurant and people around will try to deascalate and help or consolate the waiter.

Af short fight breaks ? People close enough to the participants will act, and bystanders might stay as witnesses to not make it a "he said she said" situation etc.

In general people aren't playing heroes but will do a ton of small and cumulative effort to make tensed situations not expand further into chaos.

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