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Inside the proton, the ‘most complicated thing you could possibly imagine’

quantamagazine.org

441–450 of 591 posts

Re: Inside the proton, the ‘most complicated thing you could possibly imagine’

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AKA the "anthropic principle."

AKA “God did it” with a sciencey sounding name. An answer which explains nothing, predicts nothing, satisfies no curiosity, and closes the book on any further questions.

> An answer which explains nothing, predicts nothing, satisfies no curiosity, and closes the book on any further questions.

Which law of the universe guarantees the satisfaction of your curiosity again ?

Re: Inside the proton, the ‘most complicated thing you could possibly imagine’

#442
post #372
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the primary experimental argument beta decay from that link? A nucleus can emit a positron, and observably loses nuclear charge equal to one positive electron. So by a pretty simple inferrence you could conclude the proton has a positive in it, hence the charge (it of course isn't literally like this for other reasons though). And since we also observe antiprotons, the opposite can clearly apply.

So a proton can emit a positron. Does that mean that the positron is somehow "part" of the proton? Does it mean that their wave functions interact in some specific way? Is there another reason? Quantum physics has always bothered me, personally, since I find it difficult to understand reasons. Not philosophical reasons, I am fine with axioms and foundations to models, but rather intuitive reasons why it works a certa…

> Does that mean that the positron is somehow "part" of the proton?

A photon turns into a (virtual) electron-positron pair. Does it mean that the photon consists of these particles?

Re: Inside the proton, the ‘most complicated thing you could possibly imagine’

#443
The take home and "easy to digest" conclusion is that the proton is a linear superposition of states. The most likely of these states (the ones with highest amplitude) have 3 quarks. The second most likely have 5 quarks. When you make an observation you may see 3 or 5 quarks.

Re: Inside the proton, the ‘most complicated thing you could possibly imagine’

#445
post #17

> “In fact, you can’t even imagine how complicated it is.” Well, maybe someone could imagine it, otherwise, all that complexity would have led to a gargantuan number of bugs and the universe would have crashed..

Maybe all the other instances crashed, but we got lucky and get to apply the anthropic principle. The real question is, are we running on bare metal, in a VM, or in a container?

I’ve never understood the anthropic principle. It’s a very big maybe for seemingly no reason. Existence of a single universe is a pretty hard thing to contemplate, why should we consider multiples of it?

Re: Inside the proton, the ‘most complicated thing you could possibly imagine’

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, PBS Space Time did a video on this “fine tuned universe” theory and it, like all of their videos, is great. The concept seems to be that in an unbalanced universe, life couldn’t form, and we’d be incapable of having this conversation. So, either there are infinite universes and we exist as a result of being in the right one, or there’s one universe and we exist as a result of the one we’re in being right. Either…

There doesn't seem to be any reason to believe that the defining constants of our universe are pulled from some uniform distribution though, which is the underlying assumption here. When you put it that way, that's a pretty strange and specific claim to make.

I don't think the claim requires a uniform distribution, just that the values come from some possible distribution (of any shape). With enough (or infinite) shots on goal, you're gonna get all combinations of them.

The question "why these values of constants instead of others?" sort of presupposes that other values are possible. If you instead believe that the values are fixed, then your answer is just "because that's the only value that's possible."

Re: Inside the proton, the ‘most complicated thing you could possibly imagine’

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take a shot at this. The "answer," such as it is, is symmetry. The electron belongs to a group called the leptons, which is to say they are lightweight. Leptons obey certain sorts of statistics and consist of the electron, the muon, the tau lepton, the electron neutrino, the muon neutrino, the tau neutrino, and their antiparticles. That's twelve in total. The mirror of the leptons would be quarks. Up, down, char…

One problem with your explanation is that the muon and the tau (and the pion as a decay product of the tau) all decay into electrons, neutrinos and photons, which would suggest that neither muon or tau are fundamental. This would put the fundamental leptons being only the electron (and its antiparticle) with the neutrino and the photon. Such an idea would upset the "symmetry" model.

I never suggested that they are fundamental, and nobody said that the symmetry is perfect. In fact, the way the various symmetries break is what gives rise to all of this complexity and only raise more questions.

Also, photons are not leptons -- wrong spin for that. Which in turn can raise yet another axis for our funhouse of mirrors: fermions versus bosons.

Re: Inside the proton, the ‘most complicated thing you could possibly imagine’

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The channel is definitely not targeted for the lay person. A counter example, Derek from Veritasium, he did a phd in physics education and it shows. Some of his videos are complex in content, but dumbed down so most people can understand. I enjoy PBS space time and listening to Matt O’Dowd, but I understand at the most 20-40% of what is covered on the videos. It is frustrating because I like the topics being discusse…

Derek tackles easier subjects than PBS space.

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Re: Inside the proton, the ‘most complicated thing you could possibly imagine’

#449
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am reading this as "it has to be this way, or the model does not hold", but it does not explain why. What causes it? Consistency of a model cannot be the ultimate reason, right? Perhaps 'because' if the consistency did not exist then the universe would fail to exist. There was the Big Bang, but we do not know what caused the Big Bang. But the particular Big Bang that started our particular universe may not have b…

Thats interesting, what are the chances of another big bang, after our(the current one) big bang? Could it happen while this universe is here?

I recently came into the concept of the great attractor; the mysterious force that our galaxy is hurtling towards. It is thought to be some supermass of star material and other things.

What if that supermass is another(the next?) big bang forming; energy just slides around some universe space banging off here and there, forever?

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