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Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

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Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#441

Post by manicennui »

epolanski wrote: post #173

The fundamental issue I see in this debate is a lack of sensibility and nuance in human nature. The whole matter is debated (understandably in a way) on big numbers and averages. I could write a long post but I'll cut it short to this paragraph stating that humans differ. For some commuting is stressful, the offices are noisy and full of distractions and those individuals may thrive in a remote setup. There's people…

"Some people require micro management and constant oversight"

In my experience these people don't thrive in the office either. For software engineering in particular, these people are not useful employees.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#442

Post by wharvle »

pawelwentpawel wrote: post #317
vidarh wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During my last job change I gave concrete numbers to recruiters on what getting me into an office would cost. In the end I ended up working remote, which is what I preferred, which wasn't surprising given how much the commuting time was worth to me.

Once you add those numbers, the total is usually insane. While I do miss being in the office sometimes (mostly for the social life), it's just too expensive for me as a worker right now. It's not just the time spent on commute, it's also the money that you have to spend to stay within a commutable distance from the office. Also, my profession is being a Software Engineer, not a train passenger. I made a calculator fo…

Yep, I prefer the office.

... but not even close to enough to car-commute more than about 10 minutes to it, given the option. That's roughly the cut-off. Under 1.5 bikeable miles (that's ideal!) or maybe 5 miles by car.

And to get that short a commute, I'd need all kinds of other compromises in most cities. Worse schools, more expensive and smaller housing.

Is my preference for the office worth hundreds of hours a year lost commuting, thousands of dollars a year in transportation costs, and all the extra micromorts from the commute? LOL. LMFAO. God no, it's not even close. No typical commute is a low enough cost that I'd pay it to be in the office. It's way off.

So, though I do in fact prefer working in the office... nah.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#444

Post by hospitalJail »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #316
hospitalJail wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it was: >Company A is 2.5 hours of drive time >Company B is remote Pay is the same. lol I imagine that Company A will find some sucker, but instead of getting A+ workers that can realize company B> company A, they are going to get the leftover workers, their second choice. To be fair, leftover workers seem to stick around at a company for 10-20 years.

Would I be a sucker if I have a 12 minute commute and prefer going into the office with my teammates?

No one lives 12 minutes away from this place. They picked the 'Ohio' of our state to build their HQ. Cheap land.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#445

Post by potta_coffee »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #315
CalRobert wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love remote work but I don't know if I'd call it morally evil to have people on site. There's something to be said for being in the same physical space as your peers and the social bonds that form, etc. But the only way I commute now is by train and/or bike, most commutes to some godawful office park hellscape in San Jose are agony.

I see stories of people who have worked remote at a company for a year or so, and still have yet to see the faces of any of their coworkers. I get that dev work has a disproportionate amount of basement dwellers, but man, that is still so crazy to me.

I haven't met a single one of my coworkers. About 4 of them are scattered around the US, the rest are in Europe, India and Southeast Asia.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#446

Post by rkuodys »

miroljub wrote: post #410
zer0tonin wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 * 2 minutes a day 5 times a week is 100h+ by the end of the year

You can read 10 books during that time. It's not like you need to sit there, do nothing and intensively hate your life 2 * 15 minutes a day.

Or, you know, it's 15min exercise which you need just the same :)

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#447

Post by hospitalJail »

coldpie wrote: post #307
bdw5204 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason I can imagine that somebody would genuinely like a long commute would be if they hate their home life and are trying to escape from it. They'd probably be better off just getting a divorce instead.

My commute is about 40 minutes each way by bus, plus a 5 minute walk on both ends. I love it. I get outdoors for a short walk four times a day, I read books and magazines on the bus, see what's being built or new businesses opening around town, sometimes I get to meet neighbors and other commuters, or help out random strangers with directions or whatever. My commute to work is definitely a benefit to my life.

The human brain is incredible at rationalization.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#448

Post by potta_coffee »

Garlef wrote: post #67
jfoutz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although it is pretty strong evidence office space is a boondoggle. That’s a lot of pointless overhead costs that hurt the bottom line. I like seeing my peers in person. I like hashing things out in person. Apparently that’s a waste of time and money.

> That’s a lot of pointless overhead costs that hurt the bottom line. Or put the other way: Remote work let's the employee pay for the office space.

That tradeoff is worth it to me because driving on the freeway every day is nerve wracking and soul destroying.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#449

Post by wharvle »

steveBK123 wrote: post #380
repeekad wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re touching on an important point though, mix of in person and in office is really challenging, because some people see each other all day while others are literally more disconnected. It creates a heterogeneous mix of work relationships, and I’m not so sure that handling mix WFH WFO is purely evident of poor team management, it’s just difficult to have a cohesive team when some are physically there and s…

I don't know how important all this social science stuff is to be honest. I've worked for 20 years in global teams, and written communication is very important. Having US/UK/Ireland/HK/Singapore split team isn't much different from remote. Over the years I've worked in smaller orgs with a higher % of local people. What I can tell you is that the amount of chatter grew exponentially. One place I used to call it "bilat…

In my experience, remote takes already-inefficient and error-prone workplace communication cultures that manage to muddle by with in-office workers at "merely" a significant productivity cost, and makes it totally unworkable.

The obvious solution is to fix your very-noticeably fucked up communication culture, since that would also improve in-person work.

Some orgs and managers seem to have decided, comically incorrectly, that WFH is the problem element in the above scenario, however.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#450

Post by __loam »

mlrtime wrote: post #244
__loam wrote: post #48

This is not what I want to happen, but I have to think the American tech worker gets screwed in the world where remote work is the norm. If you make the labor market global, there's a lot of really smart Europeans who will work for half or a third of what American devs will. Can anyone refute this line of thinking? I'd love to be wrong.

This topic keeps coming up when remote work is discussed and I think a lot of commenters are showing their age. Off Shoring is not new. I managed a team of 7 Indains (6 dev, 2 QA) in Hyderabad as contract workers (not company employees) in 2007, 17 years ago! Before zoom, slack, meet, teams. They were great at what they did, they were cheaper than 8 US employees, but the relationship definitely had pros/cons that are…

Totally understand offshoring went out of fashion prior to remote work and Covid. I'd be curious to know how management is evaluating that post Covid. I have to imagine many of them didn't learn their lesson, and I also imagine the quality of software engineers outside the US has risen in the meantime.
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