Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#441

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:00 PM UTC

astronads wrote: post #435

twh270 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your job is not safe" does not mean you should do everything possible to keep your job -- allowing yourself to be unfairly exploited and abused. It means that you need to be responsible for yourself, and not allow thoughts like "I'm a valuable employee", or "I have too much seniority", or "my manager and I get along great" to convince you management won't lay you off or fire you or that they owe you anything. As oth…

This is good and realistic advice. Companies exist to make profit and returns for their investors/shareholders and ultimately they will do what this necessary to make that happen. Layoffs are just another (unfortunate) business transaction. I was once in a meeting with an SVP who was going over what he was going to say in an upcoming all-hands meeting. He kept referring to employees as “resources” and I told him he s…

I wouldn't put "loyalty is dead" so starkly. But certainly lifetime employment from either side of the fence is absolutely not the norm. I've generally stayed at places a reasonably long time (arguably too long once or twice) but I still haven't made it much past a decade.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#442

Post by throwaway13394 » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:01 PM UTC

I work in Core Eng at google. Woke up this morning and saw my director - who we all loved and had been at Google for 20 years - is gone.

One concerning thing that I haven't seen reported is that my leadership chain is almost entirely Indian, all the way up. And they've announced that they are starting to offshore entire core products to India, primarily in bangalore IIUC.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#443

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:03 PM UTC

jillesvangurp wrote: post #83

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

Better put, the relationship you have with your employer is a business relation ship. It's not personal. They are not your friends, nor your enemies. It's simply a convenient arrangement between the two of you for as long as that lasts. And it might become convenient for either side to change that arrangement at any point. The more you earn, the higher the risk that at some point somebody decides that they want to sp…

I was laid off my last job, of 27 years.

I didn't actually mind. It was completely anticipated, and we (me and my team) were pretty much ready. I think the company made the correct decision, but the reason they got there, was because they made a whole cascade of rotten choices, that painted them into a corner they couldn't get out of, easily.

I really wish that they would have involved me in some of the really dumb decisions they made, because I'm actually pretty good at strategic thinking, and could have easily advised them of alternatives.

But what is done, is done.

The really annoying part, was coming out of a 27-year "silo," into the current tech industry zeitgeist.

Nasty culture shock.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#444

Post by Nimitz14 » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:05 PM UTC

500 comments not a single one is interesting.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#445

Post by bradleyishungry » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:05 PM UTC

SideQuark wrote: post #351

sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

The US also pays significantly more. Unions change the risk calculation for employers, and the result will be changes in compensation, and often increased costs to consumers. Also unions in the US have quite often rewarded seniority over skill and effort, making them less attractive to high performers. Early on in tech I outperformed all those I started with, and was able to make significantly more as a result. My fr…

Where is any evidence to back this? How can you compare a VC funded tech job pay to a normal trade pay? Software pays a lot because its a good business. There is no physical product cost so labor can be higher, and margins are higher. Comparing the EU and US start up cultures and implying its somehow due to labor protections is disingenuous.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#446

Post by garciasn » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:07 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #422

sz4kerto wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree and I am sad that we're teaching each other to be skeptical and cynical. The company is not your friend and not your enemy, I agree. However, people _do_ develop personal relationship with each other. Sometimes even across the different levels in the company hierarchy. Yes, as with any other relationship, circumstances and interests might override this, but relationships still do matter. People have emotio…

I don't think this necessarily holds in the world of remote work. At least for me, relationships are very surface level. Almost no friendly banter, limited 2 second "How was your weekend?" before meetings that no one cares about. Its hard to be friends with little black boxes and white text on a screen. This is compounded when 75% of the team is made up of consultants. I do agree though that its pretty awful but the…

Me and one of my employees are going through almost identical and seriously difficult personal times. Our company and the people within it have really rallied around us, providing personal and professional support in ways I could never have imagined.

I have said that while other companies I have worked within would be sympathetic, they definitely would not have been empathetic; however, at my current company, EVERYONE from the CEO to interns have been so very empathetic, helpful, and thoughtful.

We are all remote and have been since the pandemic. These are people who are reaching out regularly, coming to visit, offering support in whatever way possible, and being genuinely good human beings. It's simply a work culture when you don't have this, but you CAN find it.

Don't lose hope. Good companies and great people within them are there, remote or not.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#447

Post by sbrother » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:10 PM UTC

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

The easiest way to follow this advice is to take it to its logical conclusion and just offer your services on a contracting basis, as a single member LLC or a small partnership. At this point in the US tech industry the relationship between employers and FTEs is so tenuous that there isn’t much difference between the two legal arrangements in terms stability. I’ve kept my best clients much, much longer than my longest tenured FTE jobs.

And there are lots of benefits to being independent legally. Tax benefits aside, the pay is usually much higher, and you can/should take on multiple clients simultaneously. This leaves you less exposed to the whims of a single C-suite, and lets you stack up silly amounts of money when times are good.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#448

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:11 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #422

sz4kerto wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree and I am sad that we're teaching each other to be skeptical and cynical. The company is not your friend and not your enemy, I agree. However, people _do_ develop personal relationship with each other. Sometimes even across the different levels in the company hierarchy. Yes, as with any other relationship, circumstances and interests might override this, but relationships still do matter. People have emotio…

I don't think this necessarily holds in the world of remote work. At least for me, relationships are very surface level. Almost no friendly banter, limited 2 second "How was your weekend?" before meetings that no one cares about. Its hard to be friends with little black boxes and white text on a screen. This is compounded when 75% of the team is made up of consultants. I do agree though that its pretty awful but the…

This has long been true to some degree when you work with people scattered around the world. But it's a legit concern that, overall, we're probably developing much shallower relationships with the people we work with compared to when we were together in-person more of the time. Doubtless there are people who prefer just tuning out co-workers as much as possible. But it's reasonable to ask how it will affect many companies in the longer run when many co-worker relationships are very surface compared to pre-COVID.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#449

Post by password54321 » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:11 PM UTC

ken47 wrote: post #347

Google is overrated. It's been obvious for over a decade after they built an interview process that is heavily biased towards those who recently took an algorithms class. You had talking heads yammering about how hard it was to get into Google, which to be honest, made the company even less appealing. Is this a software engineering company or some kind of hyped up nightclub? Yeah, maybe it's a hard interview if you'v…

Most "leetcode" questions they ask are just easy level programming puzzles. The fact that many developers seem to hate it and even struggle with it says more about the developers applying than it does about Google.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#450

Post by wffurr » Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 2:12 PM UTC

drdrek wrote: post #358

Not that I particularly love the big G but why are top comments taking this seriously? Google grew in 2022 from 150,000 to 190,000 then down to 170,000 in 2023. What are couple of hundred down in such a large company? This is just some FUD piece.

Nothing FUD about highly respected engineers I know personally getting fired when the company is immensely profitable. The FUD is created by Google’s senior leadership.