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Why scalpers can get tickets

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Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#441

Post by mixmastamyk »

anakaine wrote: post #436
mixmastamyk wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re already doing that and it’s disgusting.

On the contrary, I think it's excellent. Turn up, show your ID along with your ticket, and you have not been screwed by a scalper. Need a refund? Log on to the site, get a refund, and your ticket goes back into the pool for a round 2 public release.

Those are all possible without data mining. Have always gotten a decent ticket when I planned ahead and resellers have helped me out on more than one occasion when I didn’t.

Oh, and they were usually poorer folks that I’d much rather get a brokerage fee than ticket master.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#442

Post by mattmaroon »

hnburnsy wrote: post #427
mattmaroon wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not how concerts work, and artists and producers don't get any money from Ticketmaster fees. In most cases, a promoter pays an artist a flat fee to perform. The promoter then markets the show and gets the ticket sales, and Ticketmaster gets Ticketmaster fees. Unfortunately Ticketmaster is owned by LiveNation, and they are far and away the biggest promoter. They sign exclusive rights with large venues. My loca…

Nope Ticketmaster shares fees with its clients, this is from the Ticketmaster help... ----- The standard tickets sold on Ticketmaster are owned by our clients (venues, sports teams or other event promoters) who determine the number of tickets to be sold and set the face value price. ... Ticket fees (which can include a service fee, order processing fee and sometimes a delivery fee) are determined in collaboration wit…

Right, their clients aren’t artists. They’re the venues or promoters who signed with them, and the promoter is usually LiveNation, who owns them. Sometimes the venue is too.

That’s exactly what I said. They pay for exclusive ticket sales. They’re just defining “client” as who they pay and notice they do not say artist, which they surely would if they ever did.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#443

Post by hnburnsy »

mattmaroon wrote: post #442
hnburnsy wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope Ticketmaster shares fees with its clients, this is from the Ticketmaster help... ----- The standard tickets sold on Ticketmaster are owned by our clients (venues, sports teams or other event promoters) who determine the number of tickets to be sold and set the face value price. ... Ticket fees (which can include a service fee, order processing fee and sometimes a delivery fee) are determined in collaboration wit…

Right, their clients aren’t artists. They’re the venues or promoters who signed with them, and the promoter is usually LiveNation, who owns them. Sometimes the venue is too. That’s exactly what I said. They pay for exclusive ticket sales. They’re just defining “client” as who they pay and notice they do not say artist, which they surely would if they ever did.

Aren't sports teams 'artists'?

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#444

Post by logbiscuitswave »

While getting tickets for The Cure was a shit show because of Ticketmaster, the fan to fan ticket exchange ended up being wonderful. I lucked into really great tickets at face value the day of the show, and I was able to resell my “still good but not great” tickets in minutes. It was almost zero friction and there were no tacked on fees or other surprises. I wish more artists did this.

Sometimes I want to resell a ticket and I’m not looking to profit but TM makes it so painful to do this under normal circumstances. The fact they can double dip on fees should be illegal. Whenever I’ve tried to sell tickets at face value (because something came up, I got better tickets later, or another tour stop opened up at a better venue), the actual listing ends up being some 20% higher because of the extra fees TM adds. TM doesn’t let you list a ticket at below face value.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#445

Post by logbiscuitswave »

cbsmith wrote: post #311
gniv wrote: post #309

If wants to reward true fans, why aren't they making their own fan club, with id-verified accounts, and then sell tickets to them first?

They did do this. It was completely compromised by scalpers.

Yup, this.

The Cure tried really hard to make ticket sales for their latest tour as fair as possible. “Verified fan” sales only, resales disallowed (except where required by law), not allowing dynamic “Platinum” (aka airline ticket) pricing, transfers not allowed, face value resale only, no added fees. They also had their tickets go for extremely reasonable prices (like, $200 for front row tickets down to $25 for the nose bleeds). Even merch was reasonably priced; $20 t-shirts, $35 sweat shirts, and everything was high-quality. It seemed like they tried everything they could to balance playing in large venues (which unfortunately means dealing with TM since they have the monopoly here) while allowing a fair experience for fans and it still went sideways.

Scalpers still found ways to game this. Tickets couldn’t be transferred, so the novel approach they used was to sell the entire account with the tickets attached to it.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#446

Post by jowea »

diego_sandoval wrote: post #289
kortilla wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich people involved in business or politics have reputation risk and can’t be seen “letting loose”. See the Dean Scream.

Meanwhile, Steve Ballmer: "Developers, developers, developers, developers. Developers, developers, developers, developers!!! Yes!!!"

I think tech just works by different rules.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#447

Post by kortilla »

autoexec wrote: post #218
kortilla wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the sophomoric take. The only reason you had the opportunity to buy a pallet during a shortage in the first place is due to idiotic “price gouging” laws. During the pandemic the price of toilet paper should have been increased by an order of magnitude at the store level. This would prevent hoarding and it would make sure people who desperately wanted it could get it. Additionally, it would have incentivized pr…

> and it would make sure people who desperately wanted it could get it. I fail to see how making toilet paper cost hundreds or thousands of dollars per roll would ensure that everyone who needed it would be able to get it, since many of those who desperately wanted to wipe their ass were unable to work and going into record amounts of debt just to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads. Producers and sell…

None of what you said makes any sense. Who would pay thousands per roll? Why would the price be that high?

Also, you’re incorrect about producers having the right incentives. They are incentivized by money, not a higher calling to wipe ass.

Price controls have no place at all other than appealing to people’s emotions. They cannot fix or hide supply problems. They can just shift the price signal to lucky intermediaries (scalpers) rather than to suppliers.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#448

Post by kortilla »

compscigirl wrote: post #433
kortilla wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the sophomoric take. The only reason you had the opportunity to buy a pallet during a shortage in the first place is due to idiotic “price gouging” laws. During the pandemic the price of toilet paper should have been increased by an order of magnitude at the store level. This would prevent hoarding and it would make sure people who desperately wanted it could get it. Additionally, it would have incentivized pr…

Ah yes “the poors don’t deserve to afford toilet paper because market forces and capitalism!” It’s amazing what tech bros making 6 figures will say from their ivory towers.

It’s incredible how dumb the jump is from “the price shouldn’t be kept at what the pre-pandemic levels were” to “the poors don’t deserve to afford toilet paper”.

Were you alive and shopping for toilet paper during covid? The wealthy could already purchase it whenever from scalpers (a.k.a Amazon resellers). Normal people had to drive from store to store hoping their ration came in and they timed it right.

The hyperbolic interpretation of price controls is, “the poors don’t deserve toilet paper at all unless they win a lottery”.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#449

Post by kortilla »

pests wrote: post #216
kortilla wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scalpers can only charge what people buy it for though. So whatever the scalpers are paying are what the people are willing to pay on average. (This assumes there are any successful scalpers and it’s not just a continuously losing game)

> can only charge what people buy it for though This can't make sense. Then where is the profit for the scalper coming from? Its also a bit untrue. Its true that yes, people _will_ pay it, but did they need to get that high? Scalpers are like auction bots - not always going to win, but will raise the prices for those who would have bought at an otherwise lower value.

You do understand that scalpers are trying to make money right? That means whatever they pay the venue is less than what they can sell it for. So whatever scalpers pay is still clearly less than what people are actually willing to pay.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#450

Post by musicale »

I've been to some concerts where they checked your ID vs. the credit card.

In that case I imagine the scalper would have to get a card issued that scanned properly with your name and the original number.

I also remember Green Day did a show which was cash at the door only; in that case you only have line cheats who pay people to stand in line for them.

I've also been to concerts where the ticket in an app locked to the phone, which could makes it harder if scalpers have to send a phone to you (though rooted phones could help.)

In each of these cases you're out of luck for the show if you lose the card or phone, though it might be possible to get a refund.

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