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FedNow Is Live

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Re: FedNow Is Live

#441

Post by 88913527 »

HoyaSaxa wrote: post #314
dheera wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this end the T + 2day ridiculousness? It should be T + 1millisecond at worst. What does it take to update 2 "balance" values in databases?

TLDR: Nearly all payments will irrefutably settle within a handful of seconds Strictly speaking the primary means in which money moves in the United States from a volume perspective is ACH today. That system is a T+1 day from a default perspective, but it has offered the option to same-day settle during a handful of batches throughout a business day. However, ACH is not irrefutable and so it is common to have holds a…

Couldn't having payments settle so quickly result in increased risk of overall system instability? I don't have a specific example, but I'm thinking of things like bank run panics. I'm sure this sort of thing would have been considered, however.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#442

Post by atentaten »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #321
tjpnz wrote: post #149

I don't understand why FedNow and CBDC are such a big issue in the US. FedNow looks quite attractive from a fees perspective, especially when compared to PayPal and alike. Part of me wonders if the middlemen who stand to lose out might be trying to muddy the waters. It wouldn't be the first time.

FedNow isn't a big issue. CBDC really isn't a big issue either, because it almost certainly won't happen. Americans are very unlikely to want a system like that.

Americans didn't want a central bank, but look at where we are.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...

Re: FedNow Is Live

#443

Post by hammock »

634636346 wrote: post #340

It will be interesting to see how this affects "toxic," deplatformed, and to some degree debanked (at least from PayPal and CC processors) entities, like the KiwiFarms. While this page is somewhat vague about the private/public status of the Fed: https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm it seems pretty well established that federally chartered corporations, like the USPS and Amtrak (e.g., https://en.wikipe…

What is the Kiwi Farms?

Re: FedNow Is Live

#444

Post by lampiaio »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #192
2143 wrote: post #179

Funny thing about topics like this is that people of any given country is oblivious to how other countries have solved that problem, or the challenges other countries face, or inturn the problems that they themselves face. Regarding payment systems specifically, people generally don't realize what they're missing. Pick anybody from anywhere and they'll tell you they've been able to do everything they ever wanted to d…

Sure, but in most countries, those services are provided by banks, not the government. There is certainly something to be said for legislation like open banking regulations that encourages/forces banks to facilitate instant peer to peer payments. But that's a far cry from a service offered directly from the government (okay, technically the fed isn't the government, but it may as well be).

> in most countries, those services are provided by banks, not the government

That's something I always point out when telling others how awesome the Brazilian Pix system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pix_(payment_system)

is. It's not a private initiative by a bunch of individual banks, but rather a zero-fee payment system managed by the country's central bank: https://www.bcb.gov.br/en/financialstability/pixfaqen .

Re: FedNow Is Live

#445

Post by aidenn0 »

mnahkies wrote: post #394
xp84 wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. I have to use checks to pay my landscaper and housekeeper, because there isn't another unilateral payment document. By this I mean, in the US everyone could use CashApp, Venmo, PayPal, Zelle (glorified ACH, right?), etc. for p2p payment. If you have the same bank, many banks have a trivial "send money to another customer's account" feature. However, to do so requires essentially a 'handshake' where the tw…

Aren't you just describing cash? Cheque has the same issue as the online alternatives in that it could "bounce" - cash (or I guess crypto) can't

Large checks are cheaper to handle than an equivalent amount of cash. Most people won't just toss $10k in the back of their car and drive to the bank, but would think nothing of taking a $10k check to the bank.

Also, there is less of a need for a receipt when paying by check. If I pay someone by check, my bank has a record of it. If I pay them by cash, I better get (and keep) that receipt in the case of a later non-payment dispute.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#446

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

dylanlacom wrote: post #417
Analemma_ wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you under the impression that ACH, the thing FedNow is replacing, is free from government influence? This is what's bizarre to me about the FedNow hysteria. It's not a government system replacing a private market system. It's a government system replacing an older, worse government system. It's like having a panic attack because the Federal Reserve is updating their PCs to from Windows XP to Windows 10.

Because Nacha (and ACH) is explicitly not a government system

ACH involves the Federal Reserve Bank in every transfer. FedNow involves the Federal Reserve Bank in every transfer.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#447

Post by amflare »

itake wrote: post #240
hitpointdrew wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand why ~FedNow and CBDC~ BIG BROTHER are such a big issue in the US. Fixed this for you. I don't really want a gigantic federal agency having insight into every financial transaction I make. Hard, fucking, pass.

Just wondering, but how is this different from our current system where judges can approve search warrants and companies have to comply? Are you think they won’t need search warrants?

This is the difference between the government needing a search warrant and having to come to your house, and them needing a search warrant but a law enforcement officer already living in your house. Sure, they still "need a warrant", but that doesn't make the situation acceptable.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#448

Post by CobrastanJorji »

ke88y wrote: post #433
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would any of it be under an NDA?

At the very least, one would hope that credentials and perhaps also certain design documents such as threat models aren't public. There may also be implementation details or code which are subject to NDA, either from the Fed itself or from service providers such as IBM in this case. Sometimes you can get that info from a FOIA request, but that doesn't negate the fact that the employees working on the system are bound…

I'm not sure "don't give out the private keys" is the sort of thing that needs a special contractual agreement.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#449

Post by imilk »

mlsu wrote: post #419
lisper wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this akin to government-backed Venmo, or something? Yes, exactly. But you have to keep in mind that this is a two-edged sword. On the one hand, it's going to be convenient and probably secure. On the other hand, it's going to let the government see every transaction you make, which for some people will be a very high price to pay.

Put the flag of North Korea into the notes of a venmo transaction. You will very quickly find out the extent to which the government knows what you are doing with your money.

That's just not true and conspiracy nonsense.

Re: FedNow Is Live

#450

Post by dools »

prometheus76 wrote: post #383
634636346 wrote: post #340

It will be interesting to see how this affects "toxic," deplatformed, and to some degree debanked (at least from PayPal and CC processors) entities, like the KiwiFarms. While this page is somewhat vague about the private/public status of the Fed: https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm it seems pretty well established that federally chartered corporations, like the USPS and Amtrak (e.g., https://en.wikipe…

The Federal Reserve is a private company with a chair that is chosen by the President of the US with advice and consent from the Senate, and serves a four-year term. There is no term limitation for this office. The reason the US government has a national debt is because that debt is owed to the Federal Reserve, which is a private bank that loans the US government money and that sets the US monetary policy.

None of what you just said is true, it’s libertarian propaganda.
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