Never waste a midlife crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: Never waste a midlife crisis

#441

Post by grecy » Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 3:54 PM UTC

taneq wrote: post #427

grecy wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many other ways to go about it, wealth is not needed to live a fulfilling life. I have found it extremely fulfilling to work for my own needs - building houses, hunting my own food, growing my own vegetables. Doing so takes 20-30 hours per week, and the rest of the time I get to spend with my friends and family. Obviously it's not for everyone, but I'm saying that people get into a mid life "crisis" because…

Sounds like a nice balance! You might not be rich (or you might be, I don't know) but you're wealthier than most, in the sense of financial independence.

> financial independence

I don't think I'm financially independent in the sense that most people use that phrase. I certainly don't have enough money that I can just sit around all day every day even for 6 months. I would have no food and no heat and would die.

I have to work, but it's working directly for my own survival, not working for a boss to earn money to buy my survival.

Re: Never waste a midlife crisis

#442

Post by fxbe12 » Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 5:25 PM UTC

This is inspiring!

I am 37(male) going though one and its certainly has its up and downs. Maybe a few here can let me know what field I should break into.

I am Sr developer in the industry for a decade. Regular dev shop and manage 3-4 direct reports and play the senior tech role for a couple of projects at any given time. I enjoy working with code but much less so then years ago.

I have a LOT of personality (meeting new people, selling myself, etc.) that I sadly don't get to us at all in my current position. I went to a work conference in DC back in February and talked to strangers non-stop for three days. I loved every minute of it. I am getting bored being at a desk all day and would rather use my personality in my work. I have my past in the technical and want to use my personality to make money now. I know there has to be a place where that's an advantageous combo. I am not afraid to take a pay-cut in transition. My company will hopefully be acquired soon so I should be able to do some hunting.

Any advice on what I should pursue? Welcome to suggestions and any private message etc with suggestions. Thanks!

Re: Never waste a midlife crisis

#443

Post by ctrlp » Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 6:45 PM UTC

xapata wrote: post #440

ctrlp wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the paper, decide for yourself. https://sci-hub.st/https://doi.org/10.1007/s11896-009-9057-8

Looks like my hypothesis is supported by the evidence: On page 4, you can see their regression results. In fact, they don't estimate the statistical significance of any occupation as a factor, not even the law enforcement occupation that they focused on. The "media and communications equipment workers" category had a reported 0.00% divorce rate! It seems implausible that we should infer causality from this.

There are a few other studies on this. Maybe I'm reading these incorrectly so would appreciate your analysis. As far as I can interpret, the pattern is legit. What is especially counter-intuitive (unless you have a negative view of the profession, as I do) is that so-called professionals in mental health have a higher divorce rate even than respondents who score high on the "anger scale". So what's that all about?

Divorce among physicians and other healthcare professionals in the United States https://sci-hub.st/10.1056/NEJM199703133361112

Medical Specialty and the Incidence of Divorce https://sci-hub.st/10.1056/NEJM199703133361112

Some callouts:

> Survey results from 2008 through 2013 included responses from more than 40,000 physicians; 200,000 other health professionals—dentists, pharmacists, nurses and health care executives; and more than 6 million other adults who reported currently being employed and ever being married. While 24 percent of physician respondents had ever been divorced, the probability of being divorced was 25 percent among dentists, 31 percent among health care executives and 33 percent among nurses. Only pharmacists, at 23 percent, were less likely than physicians to have been divorced. Lawyers had a 27 percent probability of being divorced, and *in all non-health-care occupations, the probability of ever being divorced was 35 percent.*

> A subsequent, larger study of 1118 medical graduates of Johns Hopkins University found cumulative rates of divorce of 29% *with rates higher among psychiatrists (50%)* and surgeons (33%) but was limited by its analysis of physicians from a single institution.

> The choice of specialty was significantly associated (P>0.001) with the risk of divorce (Fig. 1 and Table 2). The cumulative incidence of divorce was highest for *psychiatrists (50 percent)*, followed by surgeons (33 percent) and “other” physicians (31 percent). Among internists, pediatricians, and pathologists, the incidence of divorce was similar (22 to 24 per- cent).

> When we examined psychological variables, we found that physicians in the highest quartile for the anger scale had a higher risk of divorce than those scoring in the lower three quartiles. *Moreover, the cumulative incidence of divorce among the physicians with the highest anger scores was higher than that of any other subgroup, with the exception of those practicing psychiatry.*

Re: Never waste a midlife crisis

#444

Post by sanderjd » Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 9:23 PM UTC

dmje wrote: post #438

sanderjd wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciated this response yesterday but had nothing to add so just gave it an upvote, but now I'm feeling like from your perspective I asked you for something and then ignored you :) So now I've written this comment to say that I appreciated your response! I guess now that I'm writing something anyway, I'll say this: My conclusion since having kids has been that what we've deprioritized to our detriment is proximit…

I appreciate your response to my response :-) I agree to a certain extent, although I probably don't quite see proximity to family as massively different from proximity to friends. I personally think kids being brought up in "generally loving and supportive" environments in which which they get to hang out with all sorts of groups is actually what's important. So kids (of course) having other kids to be with - but al…

> I'd say it is families where the parents simply don't have time to spend with their kids

I don't think this is quite right. I have seen research on this (sorry don't have a link or anything, so if this is a myth I'd be happy to be corrected) that shows that at least for the like knowledge-worker rat-race type people, we are spending a more time with our kids than people did in the past. I think this reflects more helicoptering the kids around to different activities, and less independent play in the neighborhood and wandering over to the homes of family and friends (because someone would have to drive them). (This is probably a pretty US-centric perspective too.)

I do tend to agree with your point about how friends can be just a kind of supportive extended family. But most people in their 30s with young children don't have friends who are retired and excited to spend time with their kids the way that grandparents are.

Re: Never waste a midlife crisis

#445

Post by za3faran » Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 10:44 PM UTC

Lamad123 wrote: post #99

xyzelement wrote: post #2

I wonder if the mid life crisis is a completely modern and secular malady. Thinking to my religious friends who have 5+ kids, a rich spiritual life and deep engagement with community, it's very hard to imagine them going through one. Because they are too busy, but mainly because their life is oriented from the get-go around what is very meaningful to them

It's not!! We were told as kids that prophets in general became prophets at that age around 40!! It's the case for Mohammed at least and if your read up on his life around that age, you can easily imagine he was going through a mid-life crisis!!

One can imagine anything, including unrealistic and baseless things. Reality, however, is different. This is evident by the many people who carefully studied his biography and ended up embracing Islam (some of them being heavily anti-Islam themselves before that).

Re: Never waste a midlife crisis

#446

Post by jfil » Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 3:52 AM UTC

ChildOfChaos wrote: post #423

This is an interesting read, because I turned 40 this year and I have been struggling, I didn't expect to feel this way, but I also never really understand or registered the magnitude of turning 40 was, I never really processed that I had somehow grown old and I was still just drifting through life, living like I was 20. What is the process for not wasting such Crisis though? I feel part of the reason why I am in thi…

Perhaps the best way to navigate such a time of uncertainty is to recognize that you're not even aware of the spectrum of options, and to be open-minded/observing what kind of options are possible. This looks like saying "yes" to an unusual invitation, reading a book in a new genre, doing something mildly out of character - to see what kind of new thing might happen as a consequence. And it doesn't have to be serious, it's "just for research" ;-)

Re: Never waste a midlife crisis

#447

Post by kajecounterhack » Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 9:28 AM UTC

nickd2001 wrote: post #322

kajecounterhack wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, 5+ kids may seem helpful, but not because you won't face existential crisis with five kids -- you just will have more trouble finding time to process. Kids keep you very busy, until they don't. As an ex-church person: the "community" is pretty hurtful to a lot of people and isn't immune to high school clique / cult of personality type things, even if you discount other obvious harms (the experience of gay kids…

Its sad that you had such a negative experience of church, due to people's failings. Its not like that everywhere. There are church communities that are welcoming to people that are divorced, gay, etc. Sounds like you've been among people who lack of proper understanding of "love others as yourself" and "judge not lest thy be judged" which are fundamental to true Christianity (and other religions too). I'd advocate,…

Another way to look at it is that this isn't "people's failings." This is structural. Churches perpetuate problematic power structures and base their teachings on incoherent writings that can easily be interpreted to mean all kinds of nasty things. You can point to Jesus sayings in "true Christianity" and still have to explain yourself as to why Apostle Paul is allowed to say some crazy stuff in the same compilation text (the bible) that everyone loves to harp on. Also, didn't Jesus compare a gentile woman to a dog? Wowza that's some offensive and racist stuff.

> There are church communities that are welcoming to people that are divorced, gay, etc

There are plenty of church communities that _claim_ to be welcoming to such folks. You don't have to stick around long to see that it's not true. And it's also not hard to see why - the underlying foundations of the Christian church especially are rotten. Churches don't have full control of their congregants so churches will never be safe spaces as long as they teach from texts that are racist, sexist, and encourage illogical thinking. I _did_ church shop for a year in hip San Francisco of all places, before coming to this (obvious in hindsight) realization. TBT that time I walked into a church and the first thing they said was "Women were created to be mens' helper" - a panel with Francis Chan. Walked out pretty fast after that.

> I'd advocate, don't give up, don't dismiss religion based on people's failings, but instead, challenge people

What does that mean -- challenge people? You're encouraging folks like me to put up with endless bullshit and look for something that doesn't exist. No thanks.

Re: Never waste a midlife crisis

#448

Post by falloutx » Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 10:42 AM UTC

throw9away6 wrote: post #420

sedatk wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a similar note, I find the "don't waste it on a car, use your imagination" dichotomy quite shallow. Do whatever that makes you happy. You can buy that car if you want, and do great things at the same time too if that's your thing. Or, maybe you're happy with your car, and your work too. You don't owe anyone to be that designated person. You may need to own that car in order to truly process whether you need it in…

If you buy the right car on the depreciation curve you won’t lose that much a lot of these crisis choices can be quite cheap if you don’t do them impulsively.

These days well maintained used cars do not depreciate as much as it used to before. Due to inflation you might be able to sell your 5 year old car for only like 20% depreciation.

Re: Never waste a midlife crisis

#449

Post by nickd2001 » Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 4:16 PM UTC

kajecounterhack wrote: post #447

nickd2001 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its sad that you had such a negative experience of church, due to people's failings. Its not like that everywhere. There are church communities that are welcoming to people that are divorced, gay, etc. Sounds like you've been among people who lack of proper understanding of "love others as yourself" and "judge not lest thy be judged" which are fundamental to true Christianity (and other religions too). I'd advocate,…

Another way to look at it is that this isn't "people's failings." This is structural. Churches perpetuate problematic power structures and base their teachings on incoherent writings that can easily be interpreted to mean all kinds of nasty things. You can point to Jesus sayings in "true Christianity" and still have to explain yourself as to why Apostle Paul is allowed to say some crazy stuff in the same compilation…

Thanks for reply :) By "challenge people" - I mean, rather than put up with BS, relentlessly challenge it, call it out . One might attack homophobia like this: "You believe in a loving God? OK. Does a loving God smite down someone who finds themselves to be gay, or does God celebrate all committed loving relationships including ones that happen to be of the same gender". OK, I'm very liberal on this, and some Christian friends wouldn't take the same line, but they don't seem to dismiss this argument completely. I have a friend who's happily been going to a Catholic church for decades. He lives with a long-term male partner. He doesn't shout from the rooftops that he's gay but doesn't hide it either. Many people like him a lot. Some of them may think its not OK to be gay, but they like him anyway. They also do seem to believe in "sort yourself out rather than judging other". So it seems to just work out really. I agree with you about churches perpetuating problematic power structures, clericalism and so forth.. But that in itself is people's failings isn't it? Doesn't mean that all or even many Christians are supportive of that. Treatment of women - often women are not treated well , whether in the church or not. Shouldn't be happening.. but again human failings rather than something fundamental about religion or church per se, IMHO. Personally I think that churches such as Catholic, Orthodox etc that don't allow women to be priests, should be re-evaluating that, I don't see that's what Jesus wanted, and its very disrespectful, and wasting 50% of human talent to ban women, IMHO. Little secret, here in the UK amongst Catholic laity you'll find most support women priests. As regards nasty things in the bible, well, taken literally the bible can seem offensive, appalling etc, that's why to me we also need 2000 years worth of theologians thought to interpret it, and need to be careful about going straight to it picking out bits because can get wild misinterpretations that way. To use your example of apparent racism, isn't The Good Samaritan a good counter-example i:e anti-racist? I guess my entire argument is this - when we encounter people claiming to be of a religion that promotes love to each other, and they blatantly do the opposite, we should in the nicest possible way call that out and invite them to do what they claim to believe. Also there's a lot of confusion and misunderstanding about what teachings are, what Jesus really said, a misunderstanding that God is somehow punitive or vengeful which Jesus tried to clear up but we still seem to fall victim to. Well, if you don't believe in all of this anyway, fine, no problem :) There are a lot of atheists out there who behave in a much better way than most Christians. ;) I have a couple of friends like that too. Doesn't stop me arguing (politely) with them though ;)

Re: Never waste a midlife crisis

#450

Post by indigoabstract » Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 7:31 PM UTC

chasd00 wrote: post #396

indigoabstract wrote: post #262

> Penniless certainly beats bitter. That sounds like a good mantra to motivate oneself.

Unless you’ve ever been truly penniless. Being bitter beats the true terror of forcing your family to live in a shelter.

That can certainly happen and it is truly scary, not arguing about that.

I think what most people here on HN mean by 'penniless' is living with their parents and having no disposable income, or some other stressful arrangement. Something that their (perhaps former) friends and acquaintances would consider an embarrassing failure.