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Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

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Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With identical results.

I think I'd prefer drowning to whatever horrors happen when your submersible runs out of life support at the bottom of the ocean.

Surely if they slowly run out of air they won't be fully conscious when there is none.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#442
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the actual risk are close to BASE jumping then you’ve failed. The myriad BASE jumping businesses would probably like a word. Risk tolerance varies.

There are things that are even more dangerous than BASE jumping that people do for fun, like cave diving, but people do them. I never got the attraction of people to cave diving. All you have to do is kick up a little dirt, and you're pretty much dead.

Tourist Cave diver here, kicking up a little dirt happens on almost every dive, we train to deal with complete blackout scenarios, while sharing air, in restrictions but that rarely happens. Typical incidents relate to people doing a dive over their experience level or getting lost and running out of gas. Some cave systems are truly huge in scale and navigation can be difficult if you do a huge dive in one go. Personally i will only make 1 new navigation decision per dive so i can always visualize the cave. This goes out the window for those doing exploration type dives, then anything can happen.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#443
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could take some guesses. It's cramped with a lot of people; wires invite tangles or damage if someone accidentally yanks on it. Especially if you want to operate the vehicle from both sides of the interior. Those controllers have millions of hours of playtesting by people that are sensitive to the slightest twitch. I'd trust them more than most automotive components. I'm more curious to know how they run the contro…

I would not actually trust them more than an automotive component, I think most accelerator pedals use Hall Effect sensors (usually two of them in the good designs) that are much less likely to wear out and cause spurious inputs or failure than the basic potentiometers on a game console, especially a very cheap one. Get an X-box controller at least, and have a couple spares wired in, in case the wireless one fails.

To be fair, we don't know that there aren't backup controls.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#444

I'm hesitant to speculate but just sharing -- an earlier version of this submersible was scrapped: "OceanGate will take advantage of lessons learned during the construction of its carbon-hulled Titan submersible, which was originally built for Titanic journeys. Rush said tests that were conducted at the Deep Ocean Test Facility in Annapolis, Md., revealed that the Titan’s hull “showed signs of cyclic fatigue.” As a r…

If your design breaks at less than the target then you really have to question the logic of continuing with that design. Making it slightly bigger won't fix the inherent issue with the materials. They're potentially opening themselves up to charges for killing these people. They knowingly or recklessly put them on a boat when it isn't capable of reaching the depth safely and now they are dead.

Do you really know “knowingly” or “recklessly”? Unless you do, that is extremely speculative. Not to even mention assuming that they’re dead.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus. This sounds like this group is just taking billionaires' money while running a death trap. How the hell do you lose your sub for five hours? This should have stopped all trips until they fixed this problem through a combination of technical and procedural changes.

when you put it like that i'm suddenly pro death trap

Instead of a honey-trap, it’s a money-trap

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#447
post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'd prefer drowning to whatever horrors happen when your submersible runs out of life support at the bottom of the ocean.

Surely if they slowly run out of air they won't be fully conscious when there is none.

Yeah I suppose that would be the ideal outcome. I was thinking of some kind of depressurization scenarios where they get crushed by 300 atmospheres worth of pressure.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#448
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your design breaks at less than the target then you really have to question the logic of continuing with that design. Making it slightly bigger won't fix the inherent issue with the materials. They're potentially opening themselves up to charges for killing these people. They knowingly or recklessly put them on a boat when it isn't capable of reaching the depth safely and now they are dead.

The CEO was in the vessel and probably would not have put his skin in the game if he didn't believe the vessel was safe.

I don’t know about that. Charter commercial airline flights have worse safety records than other airlines. Often those involve pilots who are close to the business end of things and make poor choices because of it, even if it presents them some personal risk.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#449
post #387
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the actual risk are close to BASE jumping then you’ve failed. The myriad BASE jumping businesses would probably like a word. Risk tolerance varies.

There’s also business supporting people climbing Mount Everest, but their profits are severely limited by the number of people with means willing to take such risks.

Nepal introduced limits on the number of permits it will issue recently, because there’s more people who want to climb Everest than it can safely accomodate each year.

Re: Titanic tourist submersible goes missing with search under way

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

David Pogue, who traveled to the Titanic with OceanGate last summer, has said that he was on the control ship when a previous sub was "lost for about 5 hours". Source: https://twitter.com/Pogue/status/1670835763536183297

Is there some sort of underwater "GPS" tracker they can use to track the sub?

Because there is active search and rescue happening, a much lower tech solution is to use dye. But even that presumes a canister on the outside that can be activated from the inside and which will survive the depths of the dive. In retrospect perhaps something that does that automatically if not disarmed after a certain amount of time.
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