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'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

joannejacobs.com

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Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#441

Post by seanmcdirmid »

georgeecollins wrote: post #243
testfoobar wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealthy suburbs are cutting advanced classes too. Palo Alto Unified School District is dropping dual-enrolled Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra (classes taken after AP Calculus BC). https://www.paloaltoonline.com/square/2023/03/29/cancellatio...

My kid is on this track exactly and I think it is a joke that some kids take multivariable calculus or linear algebra in high school. Enrichment and AP has become an arms race for the upper middle class to get their kids into good schools. Realistically, if you are STEM major you probably are going to have to retake these classes anyway. And if you aren't you probably won't need them. I know some kids are really exce…

I wish they would teach these classes with some context in high school. Rather than have a course on linear algebra, they could do something like Intro to Machine Learning or intro to writing a good physics engine, or perhaps computer graphics. Teaching linear algebra without context, especially to high schoolers, doesn't seem to be very useful, but adding in the context (at the expense of maybe depth) could be transformative.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#442

Post by LeanderK »

macspoofing wrote: post #430
LeanderK wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the fix? More support from the state of course. It really is a task for the society compared to the individual, otherwise you will never ever ever have a fair system. Success in schools should not be so dependent on the parents. What about single parents? Do you just accept that it will be miserable for them to get their kids trough school? Parents without a lot of education will also have a problem of helping…

> More support from the state of course … Success in schools should not be so dependent on the parents That’s the current theory and it fails. The reality is that public eduction is education at (massive) scale. There is no amount of available resources to create, say, a personalized learning environment with dedicated teachers for individual students - when you’re dealing with millions, or tens of millions of studen…

> That’s the current theory and it fails

I do not see such evidence, maybe it fails in san francisco but that can have thousands of reasons. Everything I've read here points me to the fact that the public education is not good/comprehensive enough and too inflexible. I am honestly a bit shocked what i've read here, this is definitely not my experience with public education, like not at all. San francisco is rich, people make a lot of money there. There is no excuse why public education should not excel. I bet every major politician has his kids on a private school and also every other decision maker.

> There is no way for you to create a public system that overcomes the success that comes out of parents who are involved and invested in their child’s education

This is not exactly what I said. It is probably impossible in practice to eliminate this advantage. But while impossible to eliminate, you can try to minimise it and you should. It's the only fair thing to do because kids can't choose their parents. I would go further, it's the only ethical thing to do.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#443

Post by kelseyfrog »

alex_sf wrote: post #428
kelseyfrog wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My intentions aren't epistemologically accessible to you. What parents commenters are doing is laundering agency through a testing regime. It's part of the process of the absolution of responsibility of consequence. As an aside, it's clear that parent commenters aren't mature enough to be approached socratically. I regret their schools taught them to read and write. They clearly don't want to learn.

No, your intentions are very clear (and naive), you're just wrong.

Since we're clearly able to read each other's intentions, yours are to disrupt the legitimate line of questioning with a temper tantrum. I hope you see where assuming people's intentions ends up. I know you can do better than that.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#444

Post by [deleted] »

TchoBeer wrote: post #226
danenania wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the breakdown of that 7/10 rating, test scores are 9 and “college readiness” an 8, while “equity”, whatever that means, is 4, which is what pulls the overall rating to a 7. This rating is not really a measure of the quality of the school.

A school filled with wealthy families will always have solid readiness and test scores, just because the families can afford whatever help is needed. A quality school wouldn't just let underprivileged children slip through.

[deleted]

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#445

Post by bendbro »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #407
alex_sf wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being intentionally obtuse. If you have the capacity to have an accelerated program for 1,000 students in a district, then you rank by test scores and bring in the top 1,000.

My intentions aren't epistemologically accessible to you. What parents commenters are doing is laundering agency through a testing regime. It's part of the process of the absolution of responsibility of consequence. As an aside, it's clear that parent commenters aren't mature enough to be approached socratically. I regret their schools taught them to read and write. They clearly don't want to learn.

[flagged]

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#446

Post by v0idzer0 »

brianwawok wrote: post #373
com2kid wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up in Seattle in the 90s, the school district was obviously racist and classist. Advanced programs were in the richer (whiter) neighborhoods and poor kids got to go to schools with police wagons out front. The district charter use to have a line in it saying they had to offer each kid the best education possible. My mother used that line to force the school district to send a taxi to every day to take me up t…

> There is some fair arguments to make that mixing kids of different backgrounds together improves outcomes, if you take 1 kid from a poor background and surround that kid with a culture of success, there is a very large chance the kid will pick up on that culture of success and start doing better. My understanding is research shows this "evens" outcomes. The worst students do better (Teacher has more time to pay att…

People generally do what is expected of them. If you’re dropped into a class with higher expectations, you perform better. Lower expectations and you perform worse. We are all optimized to do what’s required of us and conserve excess energy.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#447

Post by jpgvm »

revelio wrote: post #421
elashri wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean per-capita or over all? Because a very few countries with a bigger number of populations than US have free-education. If the former, can you provide a data source?

They mean per capita. Countries with very cheap or free university allow very few people to go on such terms, relative to the size of the population.

Yes but they also generally don't offer bullshit degrees that people obtain and then end up working at McDonalds.

Germany, Switzerland, Belgium all come to mind as countries with free or near-free education that while they don't graduate the same % of their population through tertiary eduction it's not for lack of available opportunity but rather many people choose not to pursue tertiary eduction.

This is actually a good thing because they are often choosing alternatives like vocational education that is more suited to their career choices.

Baristas with university degrees is the outcome of pushing everyone to get a degree and is common place in both the US, Canada and Australia as a result as all 3 have this same notion that you need a degree to get a job. Atleast in Australia and Canada you don't also get saddled with crippling debt.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#448

Post by GoblinSlayer »

pandaman wrote: post #406
Cymrukicks wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called a teacher you find them in schools. If you pay them properly and give them adequate resources they can achieve these goals. You also add in libraries and other places where kids can learn independently.

I am not sure how does this answer my question. "Paying properly" a teacher will make one's parents millionaire professors or as interested and capable in their children education how? Or do you simply deny that parents educate their children? Do you believe that as long as they have the same teachers at school, who are 'paid properly', say, a farmer's son and a son of a musician will have the same knowledge and skil…

My parents only told me to do homework. I don't think only millionaire professors can do this.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#449

Post by horns4lyfe »

jerojero wrote: post #31
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

Argh this grinds my gears. It’s the education SYSTEM that is wrong. We are working with a 150 year old way of educating kids that does not apply to our culture today. Kids aren’t going to work on the farm or in a factory. They need the math!!! For courses like algebra, etc. kids need support at home from parents. When that support isn’t available (for whatever reason), don’t water down the content for goodness sake.…

I mostly agree with you, except on one aspect. We cannot rely on support from parents, the system we design needs to be thought of with parents out of the equation because in the case of the most vulnerable of kids they will not have parents that can help them. Special tutoring needs to be a part of the system, outsourcing the work will make things cheaper but it will complicate things for those struggling. Kids in n…

You can try to work the parents out of the equation as much as you want, but it won’t work. This isn’t a new problem, and we don’t and won’t live in small communal villages.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#450

Post by staunton »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #394
staunton wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be saying that schools are bad. Do you really think modern society can function without schools? Or that countries that don't have schools shouldn't build any?

You ask two questions that are at odds with each other. If schools were bad, but modern society can't function without them, which would you pick? If you say it can't function without them, then are they good regardless because you want it to continue to function? Like, no matter how bad they are? Or do you draw some line or another? "It's ok if they make kids dumb and compulsive consumers, but they can't go torturin…

You seem to have very nuanced concepts of "good and bad", which I don't fully grasp. I was starting from a rather simpler world view. Yes, I want society to function. Societal collapse is imho extremely bad.

Even regardless of collapse, I still much prefer living (and having gone to school) in a country that has schools. At no point did it seem to me what the point of school is to make people dumb. That wasn't the US and wherever yours was, your experience may be different, but I really don't understand the level of cynicism triggered here by every discussion involving schools. Access to education has brought lots of people out of poverty and I'm rather sure the vast majority of children much prefer school to hard work in the fields. I also think it's pretty clear thay on the scale of centuries schools around the world have improved tremendously. On the scale of decades and centuries, physical violence and bullying has decreased a lot, both by teachers and children, while creativity and understanding play a more important role in lessons today than was ever the case in compulsory education systems.

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