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The Contradictions of Sam Altman

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Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman

#441

Post by rifty »

cookingrobot wrote: post #145
iibarea wrote: post #87

There's tons of extremely effective marketing around who this guy is, what he stands for - and so I'd instead look at what he's done. He took a non-profit intended to offset the commercial motives driving AI development, and turned it into a for profit closely tied to Microsoft. I think he's an extremely shrewd executive and salesman, but nothing he's done suggests any altruistic motivations - that part always seems…

He didn’t take equity in OpenAi. Does that suggest altruism?

What do you do with excess funds? Invest it? Direct it towards your interests and achieving your ideas? If you set up the organizational structure such that you are unlikely to lose your power over it unless you choose to, do you or do you not have similiar control over the equity as if you owned it?

Some people have technology visions which they direct their capital towards. I sense his interest is actually a mix of cultural and social. Is it altruistic? Maybe, but maybe not... It's probably more useful to consider if the vision is or is not restictively utopic and if you think it should or shouldn't be orchestrated / heavily influenced into existence from a central power structure. Is his vision and approach socially aligned?

Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman

#442

Post by sergiomattei »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #417
ajross wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not the job of the government, it's the job of citizens If only there was a system of government designed from first principles to reflect the will of the people... This is just librarian tautology. It's not wrong, but any "citizen" organization you can imagine to implement whatever policy it is you want[1] is going to be isomorphic to a democratic government. [1] You skipped this part!

The government looks after its own interests. That is what an institution does. A government isn't different than a corporation or any other organization this way. Delegating powers to a government for the common good does not change any of this. The people still have the job of ensuring the government carries that out properly because its priority is and always will be foremost itself, so the people have to ensure t…

So does the private sector. At least the public has some say in governance. Who wins?

Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman

#443

Post by notjulianjaynes »

smirth wrote: post #439
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The discourse about lost jobs is necessary but a little odd: leveraging VC money and software driven automation to take over sectors ripe for the picking is the startup model in a box.

I think the point is that society and our economies and particularly people in places of power are not preparing for a world in which automation, AI, and robots rapidly advance to the point where jobs will no longer be needed in many cases, and perhaps one day be a choice not a necessity to even live. It would be better if we prepared for that instead of worshipping jobs as if the point of life is to have a job. The…

To anyone interested in this topic I highly recommend listening to this lecture John Cage gave at Stanford University in 1992.

John Cage - Overpopulation and Art

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzPneYqBLAI

Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman

#444

Post by jjulius »

mellosouls wrote: post #188

There seems a lot of negative perception of the guy here, and OpenAI definitely deserve criticism for some stuff (so as the CEO, so does he), but - even if it was built on the work of others, and with the obvious caution about what may come next - he and they deserve immense respect and credit for bringing in this new AI age. They did it. Nobody else.

I can't quite put my finger on why, but I've always found it odd to just give blanket "respect and credit" just because someone/thing "did it first". Yeah a lot of times it's justified, but I mean, if you have to put caveats on it like ya did...

I dunno.

Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman

#445

Post by selestify »

smirth wrote: post #439
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The discourse about lost jobs is necessary but a little odd: leveraging VC money and software driven automation to take over sectors ripe for the picking is the startup model in a box.

I think the point is that society and our economies and particularly people in places of power are not preparing for a world in which automation, AI, and robots rapidly advance to the point where jobs will no longer be needed in many cases, and perhaps one day be a choice not a necessity to even live. It would be better if we prepared for that instead of worshipping jobs as if the point of life is to have a job. The…

What indications are there that the US will start preparing for this anytime soon? We’ve had decades to share the cost savings from outsourcing to China and failed to do so.

On the other hand, unemploying a large enough segment of society at once might finally force some change in the system, rather than letting it continue limping on in a slow burn where 1-2% of jobs get automated a year.

Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman

#446

Post by JenrHywy »

whitemary wrote: post #425
okareaman wrote: post #206

This is a very fluid and chaotic situation so I'd be more concerned if he said one thing and stuck to it When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind. What Do You Do, Sir? - John Maynard Keynes A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall - R…

> When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind. What Do You Do, Sir? - John Maynard Keynes I sure would love to hear Mr. Keynes acknowledge defeat. If he were alive today, I seriously doubt we (Marxists like myself) would have the pleasure.

Keynes is probably the most influential economist of all time. I disagree with some of his ideas (for likely different reasons than you do), but I can't see any basis for him "admitting defeat" - he's many things, but defeated is not one of them.

Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman

#447

Post by selestify »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #351
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll be decided by AI, not by governments, corporations, or individuals. There's still a kind of wilful blindness about AI really means. Essentially it's a machine that can mimic human behaviours more convincingly than humans can. This seems like a paradox, but it really isn't. It's the inevitable end point of automatons like Eliza, chess, go, and LLMs. Once you have a machine that can automate and mimic social, p…

> Essentially it's a machine that can mimic human behaviours more convincingly than humans can. Isn't this impossible by definition? Nothing can be more convincingly human than humans, or else it would be something else. Perhaps you mean mimic charismatic or intelligent humans more than most, or the average, human? > Once you have a machine that can automate and mimic social, political, cultural, and personal interac…

> Isn't this impossible by definition? Nothing can be more convincingly human than humans, or else it would be something else.

Why isn’t it theoretically possible for an AI to pass the Turing test so hard that more than 50% of the time humans think the AI is the real human? That would effectively be more convincingly human (to humans) than humans are.

Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman

#448

Post by HyperSane »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #396
HyperSane wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more powerful your military is the less likely you will need to use it to defend yourself.

From near-peer opponents, yes. But it increases the temptation to use it against weaker opponents.

Offensive use of a military is a very different thing.

Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman

#449

Post by p3rls »

okareaman wrote: post #206

This is a very fluid and chaotic situation so I'd be more concerned if he said one thing and stuck to it When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind. What Do You Do, Sir? - John Maynard Keynes A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall - R…

Whenever someone is accused of hypocrisy on the internet Oscar Wilde's dead corpse must be exhumed and put on the defense. I must have seen these exact lines on HN a dozen times over the last few years. It's as though this is a subject that people cannot reason about in the normal fashion and must fall back on cliches and appeals to authority (meanwhile almost the entire western canon is against this sorta character failing)

So here's a few quotes that go in the reverse direction:

"That which he sought he despises; what he lately lost, he seeks again. He fluctuates, and is inconsistent in the whole order of life."—Horace, Ep., i. I, 98.

Many of the Greeks, says Cicero,—[Cicero, Tusc. Quaes., ii. 27.]— cannot endure the sight of an enemy, and yet are courageous in sickness; the Cimbrians and Celtiberians quite contrary; "Nothing can be regular that does not proceed from a fixed ground of reason."—Idem, ibid., c. 26.

"Esteem it a great thing always to act as one and the same man."—Seneca, Ep., 150.

“If a man knows not to which port he sails, no wind is favorable.”—Seneca, Ep., 71.

Re: The Contradictions of Sam Altman

#450

Post by braindead_in »

As a fellow believer in the equivalence of Bramhan and Atman, I can't help but think that the only ones amused by the current situation with AI are the Nondualists. Sama seems to be one of them [1]. So, I say to sama, be fearless and invent the future. After all, it's not something new, and in the end, everyone is destined for liberation. Let's enjoy the ride and see where it takes us!

[1] https://twitter.com/sama/status/1607482407770554373

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