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The age of average

alexmurrell.co.uk

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Re: The age of average

#441

Post by didericis »

Last5Digits wrote: post #216
acuozzo wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I barely consume media nowadays, because every book, movie, TV show, video game and song fails to give me an interesting or meaningful experience. I felt this way too until I realized that what I was really experiencing was that my desire to explore outside of my comfort zone had lessened with age. Have you jumped into silent films? Buster Keaton? Have you explored European Atmospheric Cinema? Jean-Luc Godard? Art…

Thank you for this advice. Upon some self-reflection, I think I realize now that I've fallen into this exact trap. The few movies I've recently watched have been the kind of formulaic drivel that I know I'm sick of, and yet I've never felt any desire to watch genres I'm not already familiar with. I seem to get some perverse kind of satisfaction from reinforcing my nihilistic view of the current state of things while…

I've examined similar feelings very closely and don't believe it to be a past centric nostalgia. I've found niches that give me that same energy. Most of what I enjoy lies outside of what's recommended to me by most front page/news feed algorithms/is stuff I find as a consequence of deliberate search/spelunking for different novel ideas.

I genuinely believe true creativity taps into something beyond our conscious experience, and is a kind of strange combination between premonition and expression of the collective unconscious. I think our systems and machine centric world is delusional about the ability to statistically predict how to deliver what people actually want/need, and those systems are unable to replicate extremely important hidden benefits of human curation. We've created systems that seem to be able to meet our needs "automatically", but they don't actually meet our needs/they're too self referential and too reliant on explicit metrics. Those systems have taken over most of the more natural avenues for discovery and end up over-selecting for things that are the average of existing material, and have little creative authenticity. AI recommended and generated movies/art is the final boss of this trend.

That trap is a consequence of the dopaminergic treadmills most of us are stuck on courtesy of recommendation algorithms optimizing purely for attention.

Re: The age of average

#442

Post by amatecha »

misterprime wrote: post #326
crazygringo wrote: post #123

What the article describes is correct, but I don't think the words "average" or "homogeneity" or "conformity" are the right terms, as they seem to carry negative connotations here. Rather, the right word is "convergence". The point is, people like certain things aesthetically. It used to be that artists and designers were still trying to figure out what looks good, and trying all the things. But now we've tried so ma…

I know some people are making the point that taste is subjective, but I'd like to argue that, at least in some aspects, certain designs are solvable. There may be an interesting period of variety while we solve something, but eventually, we can get there. I was taken aback while watching Something's Gotta Give recently. The movie is from 2003 and spends a lot of time in a nice house. Well, the kitchen looked perfect…

Nice, yeah that looks great to me. Though the fridge looks counter-depth (I prefer a deeper fridge and dislike those disturbingly-shallow ones common in luxury homes). Proper spacing between the "islands" so two people (or more) can fit comfortably. It is indeed a very solid "solution" to the kitchen.

In the same sense, I felt like Macintosh System 7 was a complete and optimal solution to the computer "desktop" paradigm. There was never any compelling need to substantially change it (and indeed even the absolute latest Mac or Windows is nearly the same, though far less refined and concise IMO). I'm not sure when/if we'll see a drastic difference in the personal computer OS GUI that takes hold.

Re: The age of average

#443

Post by mlsu »

As it turns out, every part of humanity is subject to the law of physics.

If you churn some water with a bit of soap in it, a lot of large bubbles will form on top. Just wait a few seconds, and those bubbles that are too large will divide into smaller ones, and those that are too small will be absorbed by the large. This happens naturally, without prompting, and it happens regardless of the original configuration of the bubbles.

We believe that we are exempt from something like this. That there is something special about the human brain that makes it possible for it to maintain some anomalous state indefinitely.

There is not. There is nothing special about our minds. Just like the bubbles, the system settles. The square edges are sanded off; the too small or the too large, absorbed.

When the energy flowing into the system changes, that is how you know that the configuration might change. Have a look:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-energy-use?tab...

Re: The age of average

#444

Post by nine_k »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #403
nine_k wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since birth rate is below reproduction in most of the world, and population declines (slowly or faster) basically everywhere in the "developed world", even including China, there will be fewer and fewer "other people". We'll have to produce less and less if we do not keep replacing existing stuff with new (hopefully superior) stuff.

> new (hopefully superior) stuff. And this is a big deal, too. We've made huge strides in cars and appliances. Outside of specialty needs furniture and carpentry hasn't changed much over the years. > there will be fewer and fewer "other people". This is going to take a long time (when measured over the typical human lifespan), and won't be very noticeable outside of child-oriented institutions. Major changes in indus…

The transition of Japan from a fast growing "tiger" to a society with few children, older people dominating, and contracting industry occurred very much within my lifetime, and I'm not an old person yet.

Re: The age of average

#445

Post by thomastjeffery »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #431
thomastjeffery wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary! There is a key difference going from "convergence" to "conformity": circular reasoning. People who need to sell the thing they invent, tell themselves that "convergence" is the best way there. Customers like familiar traits. So they design for intentional convergence, and that is the essence of conformity. 99.99999% of keyboards are the same physical layout. This layout is a standard that conforms to…

> There is a key difference going from "convergence" to "conformity": circular reasoning. > People who need to sell the thing they invent, tell themselves that "convergence" is the best way there. Customers like familiar traits. So they design for intentional convergence, and that is the essence of conformity. This is completely tautological. You're just saying "it's not convergence, it's conformity" and your only ar…

I went into great detail to prove my point. What would you say I am missing?

Re: The age of average

#447

Post by thomastjeffery »

8note wrote: post #327
thomastjeffery wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary! There is a key difference going from "convergence" to "conformity": circular reasoning. People who need to sell the thing they invent, tell themselves that "convergence" is the best way there. Customers like familiar traits. So they design for intentional convergence, and that is the essence of conformity. 99.99999% of keyboards are the same physical layout. This layout is a standard that conforms to…

That layout is not the case. For instance, Canadian keyboards have a different layout from American ones, and keyboards that support other languages have different keys as well

I'm not talking about the arrangement of characters: I'm talking about the physical shape and placement of keys.

If you want examples, take a look at the subreddit for ergonomic keyboards: https://www.reddit.com/r/ergomechkeyboards/

Re: The age of average

#448

Post by thomastjeffery »

411111111111111 wrote: post #353
thomastjeffery wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are physically the exact same size and shape . That isn't reductive at all.

And phones aren't? And for the record, keyboards have massive size difference, in all dimensions. Keyboards actually have a way bigger variance then you'd find in phones. Some are just a few mm high, others go as high as 5cm. There are 60% keyboards. Ergonomic keyboards. Keyboards that're basically just a small nipple with which you're doing input by gesture. the keys and actuation themselves are another topic with R…

I never made any claims about phones. That was all you.

If you want an example of what I'm talking about, look here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ergomechkeyboards/

Keyboards don't inherently need to have the keys laid out like a typewriter. Most people are only willing to use a keyboard that is, because that is what they already developed their muscle memory for. That's the motivation behind the conformity I'm talking about.

A natural convergence would start with many competing options, and gradually boil down to what's popular; but keyboard shapes have only recently seen meaningful diversity be available at all.

Re: The age of average

#449

Post by thomastjeffery »

eimrine wrote: post #340
epups wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would dare say that 99.99999% of keyboard users expect a similar layout. Sure, it converged out of conformity and familiarity, but so what? This is part of the added value to me, I can learn to type in a particular layout and I'm good to go in any other. This is a crucial part of functionality in fact.

> I would dare say that 99.99999% of keyboard users expect a similar layout. Why don't they expect the best one? Seems like the 99.99999% of users are fooled by monkeys and bananas on ceiling experiment. I can not name that amount of people just idiots but if your upper-home row consist a word "typewriter" I consider your choice as definitely not wise.

There are multiple qualities to maximize.

Most people have spent their entire lives only seeing a few small deviations from the traditional typewriter shape.

That's what they had, so they developed themselves alongside it. It was hard work, and they don't want to do it again.

Not having to do the work of creating new muscle memory is a quality many people highly value.

Unfortunately for the rest of us, the assumption has been that there aren't enough people interested in trying something new to have a viable market. It would be a risky business venture: at the very least, difficult to raise venture capital. That is a self-filling prophecy: circular reasoning that demands conformity.

Re: The age of average

#450

Post by a4000 »

citizenpaul wrote: post #387
groby_b wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a core point. It most stuck out to me when the article talked about car colors - most cars are black or white because car makers mostly make black or white . Buying a car with a splash of color is hard. Red is your best chance. Followed by butt-ugly blues. You cannot meaningfully choose according to your taste because choice is restricted. (Related, try to buy furniture that isn't a fucking cheap imitation of…

Safety is an under appreciated function of car color. I've had a number of same looking cars of different color. I noticed that driving a white version results in substantially less near miss/near accidents while driving. I will only buy white cars now because of this. I'm tired of dodging inattentive drivers that are sleepdriving through their commute or whatever they are doing besides driving.

Yellow cars actually have the lowest rate of accidents, although it's not that common to find in a standard range of most cars.
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