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Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

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Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#441

Post by simfree »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #437
Valgrim wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google search results have been decreasing in quality quite dramatically in the past few years for me. I need to spend more and more time crafting complex search queries tuned to my needs, and still most of the results are more or less irrelevant. Or sometimes it seems to completely ignore the syntax I give it. Basically, Google search does not understand what I'm asking. Sure AI hallucinates stuff, but at least the…

I switched from Google search in 2017 to DuckDuckGo and haven’t looked back. I started switching family away to DDG during the pandemic and they haven’t noticed. Google has a legacy moat but they aren’t the best by a noticeable amount anymore.

DuckDuckGo hasn't had results on par with Qwant.com for me. I do find myself using DDG too often tho since it's default on Debian Firefox.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#442

Post by andsoitis »

strangattractor wrote: post #424
andsoitis wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

often, no response is superior. the more things you put out there the more material for people to hang critique, rumor, etc. of off. but in these cases ego can make us blind. or the belief that just because someone asked a question we have to respond.

You'd have to argue that one with ChatGPT. Here's one of the many failures Jobs had during demos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znxQOPFg2mo

chatgpt is incapable of debate. it exudes arrogance and defensiveness when you try to engage in debate. it lacks plasticity of mind, isn’t able to critically evaluate its own position, and is pedantic. boring.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#443

Post by ikt »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #437
Valgrim wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google search results have been decreasing in quality quite dramatically in the past few years for me. I need to spend more and more time crafting complex search queries tuned to my needs, and still most of the results are more or less irrelevant. Or sometimes it seems to completely ignore the syntax I give it. Basically, Google search does not understand what I'm asking. Sure AI hallucinates stuff, but at least the…

I switched from Google search in 2017 to DuckDuckGo and haven’t looked back. I started switching family away to DDG during the pandemic and they haven’t noticed. Google has a legacy moat but they aren’t the best by a noticeable amount anymore.

Not sure why you're getting downvoted, looks like we both had a similar path around the same time. I tried DDG very early on maybe 2012/13 and the results were awful but I tried it again in 2017 and found it works fine.

I have since moved to Ecosia a year or two ago as I found the results were very similar and have no issue with it.

Does make me sad the traffic page is gone: https://instruments.digital/duckduckgo-traffic-archive/

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#444

Post by fomine3 »

segmondy wrote: post #32
npalli wrote: post #9

Here's the weird thing though, as discussed yesterday [1], the Microsoft demo was totally broken as well. In the end, everyone is looking for a big platform shift (next MOBILE!!!) and hype getting ahead of reality. When we look back in 3 months we will wonder why we thought LLM/GPT type queries will replace search in all forms. https://dkb.blog/p/bing-ai-cant-be-trusted

Nothing weird about it. It's called first mover's advantage. Wanna make electric cars, you have to beat Tesla. No matter how nice your car is. If your range is worse. Booo. If your self driving is equivalent or worse, Boo. Whatever Tesla has done, you must be better at. You need better design, cheaper price, better range, better reliability else no one would notice you.

Car manufacturer don't have to beat Tesla because it's not "winner takes all" market. Not good analogy.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#445

Post by vnrao »

saghm wrote: post #349
vnrao wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When we look back in 3 months we will wonder why we thought LLM/GPT type queries will replace search in all forms. I really hope so. LLM for search seems like a big leap right now. It isn't even really search but just a UI change for interacting with the underlying search engine. The caveats being that the people who actually think and create don't gain the clicks that they would get today (with the accompanying ad…

> I really hope so. LLM for search seems like a big leap right now. It isn't even really search but just a UI change for interacting with the underlying search engine. To question the underlying premise: what makes you so sure that an improved interface for searching _isn't_ meaningful? From what I can tell, we're a lot closer to optimal collection/categorization of data in search engines than we are to optimal inter…

I'm not downplaying the change improved interface at all. I think it's an extremely impactful change. But it isn't sorted out completely right now. The Google search box cannot be replaced by a LLM chatbot. I totally relate to your laptop example since I've experienced something similar myself. The main advantage with LLM/GPT is distilling something complex into a much simpler form with the ability to ask questions and maintain context.

In fact, your laptop example is a perfect illustration of my point. Finding a laptop for Linux gaming is extremely complex. Let's not kid ourselves. The number of things that can go wrong (especially with a Nvidia GPU) is bonkers - my machine completely nukes the display manager every time I update Debian forcing me to do a re-install of SDDM. But the problem here isn't fundamentally search. We know what we're looking for and the exact criteria. Like you said, the problem is collection and categorization of data and presenting it to the user in a helpful manner. This is a digital version of a computer salesman who actually knows their job. LLMs are just salesmen who know about a lot. I'm just extending this to teaching and the knowledge industries and saying, "Look, if you can present information about computers so well, you can tell me about heat death a lot better"

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#446

Post by tadfisher »

warning26 wrote: post #338
oofta-boofta wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whew boy you hit the nail on the head. Google just seems to be aimless at this point, and now with the layoffs (despite their immense profitability) they're going to have a much tougher time hiring and retaining top talent.

I don't understand why the board hasn't ousted Sundar yet -- has he even spearheaded a single successful initiative that wasn't sunsetted within a few years? Seems like you could make an LLM generate product ideas and it would be about equally effective.

Chrome and ChromeOS come to mind. But he wasn't CEO then.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#447

Post by bigfoot675 »

pphysch wrote: post #358
oofta-boofta wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whew boy you hit the nail on the head. Google just seems to be aimless at this point, and now with the layoffs (despite their immense profitability) they're going to have a much tougher time hiring and retaining top talent.

Microsoft's GitHub, which is apparently at the forefront of the "LLM revolution" with Copilot, also announced significant cost-cuts. What's your point?

Totally unrelated point to the person you're replying to

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#448

Post by AlbertCory »

tadfisher wrote: post #446
warning26 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the board hasn't ousted Sundar yet -- has he even spearheaded a single successful initiative that wasn't sunsetted within a few years? Seems like you could make an LLM generate product ideas and it would be about equally effective.

Chrome and ChromeOS come to mind. But he wasn't CEO then.

As I recall (someone correct me on timing?) he was actually in charge of Chrome for a long time.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#449

Post by Corrado »

daydream wrote: post #440
warning26 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the board hasn't ousted Sundar yet -- has he even spearheaded a single successful initiative that wasn't sunsetted within a few years? Seems like you could make an LLM generate product ideas and it would be about equally effective.

> I don't understand why the board hasn't ousted Sundar yet They didn’t realize they were at war until about 3 months ago. That’s why. It takes time.

This is why I think Google is in real trouble. They really don't recognize that they could fail. It's kinda like you can't smell yourself and don't realize you stink, until everyone leaves the party because of it.

Re: Google employees criticize CEO for “dumpster fire” response to ChatGPT

#450

Post by pg_1234 »

Valgrim wrote: post #427
ptero wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An important difference, to me, is that a lot of people already have familiarity with ChatGPT; either directly or through friends, family or just news. Most of those folks (judging by my own friends) had very low expectations which ChatGPT blew out of the water. When they read "Microsoft search with ChatGPT" they are looking for integration of at least somewhat known quantity into a not so great (perception-wise) sea…

Google search results have been decreasing in quality quite dramatically in the past few years for me. I need to spend more and more time crafting complex search queries tuned to my needs, and still most of the results are more or less irrelevant. Or sometimes it seems to completely ignore the syntax I give it. Basically, Google search does not understand what I'm asking. Sure AI hallucinates stuff, but at least the…

This is why they may need a new CEO.

Currently they have a "caretaker CEO".

Google was sitting on a massive cash cow, so they appointed someone who would just keep it ticking over.

In the face of an existential threat, like ChatGPT, they need someone who can actually drive innovation. Not innovate themselves, nobody expects a CEO to do that, just create a culture which has a hope in hell of rising to fend off challenges to the empire.

They don't have this.

That have a CEO who is only capable in "good times" ... along with most of the company.

Faced with sufficient adversity, they will need a CEO who can succeed in the face of adversity.

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