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Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

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Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#441

Post by itsoktocry »

michaelt wrote: post #304
alphanullmeric wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curiously, all the people that support such censorship in western countries are actually against it in this instance. Almost like whether or not they choose to support a policy depends not on what it does but instead on who it’s being done to.

> Almost like whether or not they choose to support a policy depends not on what it does but instead on who it’s being done to. Well, or they have a more nuanced view than "censorship no" or "censorship yes" For example, I support laws preventing stores from selling 3 watt LED bulbs in packages claiming they're 5 watt LED bulbs; or selling generic LED bulbs in packages claiming they're Phillips bulbs. Even though the…

>Even though the printed text is surely the manufacturer's speech.

This is a terrible analogy, and evidence that the people who claim we can't protect all speech have no idea what "free speech" actually is.

Hint: no, it's not fraud.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#442

Post by greatgib »

beefield wrote: post #87
golergka wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of many, many reasons why western countries and social media companies should not normalise censorship re-branded like "fighting disinformation".

How do you propose western countries and social media companies fight disinformation?

The solution is obvious, it is called education and critical thinking. But the same kind of gov are also very afraid of a too educated population that could challenge their authority!

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#443

Post by LadyCailin »

alphanullmeric wrote: post #402
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy false equivalent, Batman! The poster's point was pretty simple: there is some speech which doesn't deserve to be fully protected to the highest possible level. Untrue commercial speech like false advertising is pretty much in that category. This is why we allow attorneys-general to bring cases against false advertisers, for example. Usually the remedy is monetary damages, but injunctive relief is also available.…

Is there a sale or not? If there's not a sale it's not advertising. If it's not advertising it should be allowed, false or not. If it is advertising it's not just speech. You lack the consistency to make your argument work. So again, I guess you're fine with arresting people over light bulbs.

But now YOU are deciding that “if a sale is involved, speech can be restricted.”

Why can I not decide “if it would result in people dying, speech can be restricted?”

I mean, if you told me I could only restrict one of these, then surely I would pick the second anyways.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#444

Post by ipaddr »

michaelt wrote: post #304
alphanullmeric wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curiously, all the people that support such censorship in western countries are actually against it in this instance. Almost like whether or not they choose to support a policy depends not on what it does but instead on who it’s being done to.

> Almost like whether or not they choose to support a policy depends not on what it does but instead on who it’s being done to. Well, or they have a more nuanced view than "censorship no" or "censorship yes" For example, I support laws preventing stores from selling 3 watt LED bulbs in packages claiming they're 5 watt LED bulbs; or selling generic LED bulbs in packages claiming they're Phillips bulbs. Even though the…

Fraud and censorship are different.

Saying these bulbs have 5 when they have three is a lie but shouldn't be censored. Selling someone 3 but saying it is 5 is fraud. Selling/buying have different laws and standards.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#445

Post by sorethescore »

golergka wrote: post #39
mrtksn wrote: post #20

Erdogan's first speech was almost 2 days after the earthquake and he said "We are monitoring who said what on the social media and tried to provoke the people. Today it's not the day to go after those but we take notes and when the day comes, we will go after them". Just look at his face when delivering this speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doy38aKbMw4 It's like from V for Vendetta. The lighting choice is very…

This is one of many, many reasons why western countries and social media companies should not normalise censorship re-branded like "fighting disinformation".

Nonsense, if you tolerate disinformation you get more disinformation. Countries that fail to address it will fall and the world will be worse off because of it. The right to free speech does not include the right to a free platform or free promotion.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#446

Post by beefield »

quanticle wrote: post #427
beefield wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because their customers/voters want it? Me, I very much prefer censored HN to free speech 4chan. The question is, what are you doing here if you prefer 4chan where the "truth" is not censored?

As someone who visits both HN and 4Chan, I like having the choice. I definitely don't want the government deciding that 4Chan is illegal and wiping it off the 'Net because it contains disinformation. When you ask, "How should governments fight disinformation," what you're really asking is, "How can governments deny their citizens the right to choose what information they read, watch or listen to." When it's phrased l…

No, it is the other way round. If there are no places where companies and/or governments censor/limit free speech/fight misinformation, every place turns into 4chan and you lose your ability to choose. I'm happy there are places where speech is not restricted. And I'm even more happy that there are places where speech is restricted. Do you think HN should stop moderating discussion?

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#447

Post by Luc »

xwdv wrote: post #411
cultofmetatron wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For anyone telling to use VPN, yeah, many people are used to using VPN because of these blocks not to mention, imagine learning to setup a VPN (Beacuse your life depends on it) while you're buried under rubble..

[flagged]

Indeed, and less tech savvy people could just hand their phone to any teenager crushed nearby to do it for them.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#448

Post by smcn »

slg wrote: post #439
smcn wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trying to say that biology is the root cause? The content is successful as it emits a reaction from us. Whether a good reaction or a bad one, we still engage with it. Whether you're binge watching a TV show you love or hate scrolling a subreddit that makes you angry, the content is designed to elicit some form of reaction that keeps you coming back or memetically passing it on. However that is not a new devel…

There are two aspects to the root cause. You mentioned the first part, basic human biology pushes us towards content that elicits a reaction. The second part is that lies inherently have an advantage over the truth to elicit a reaction because they are only limited by human imagination while the truth is limited obviously by the truth. As long as humans have the free will to engage with whatever content they choose,…

We haven't recently invented the concept of a lie, so the idea of "that's just how we are" rings hollow. People are being radicalised by qanon, incels, redpill, the alt-right, at an increased rate because they're being force fed this content on a daily basis, and they're being siloed into custom fit echochambers by algorithms optimising for their engagement.

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#449

Post by prh8 »

xwdv wrote: post #411
cultofmetatron wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For anyone telling to use VPN, yeah, many people are used to using VPN because of these blocks not to mention, imagine learning to setup a VPN (Beacuse your life depends on it) while you're buried under rubble..

[flagged]

"it's not too hard to do something you have no knowledge about, while being in shock and survival mode from extreme trauma both physical and mental"

use critical thinking for like 2 seconds

Re: Twitter restricted in Turkey in aftermath of earthquake

#450

Post by LadyCailin »

peyton wrote: post #371
vkou wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, his scenario is not equivalent, but here's a few more: "Hello, this is just a reminder that your voting station will be open between 5 pm and 9 pm in (somewhere where it's not actually located), please remember to vote!" "Hello, if you would like a free ride to your voting station, please text us 'YES', and wait at (location) between X and Y pm (Nobody will show up)." "Hello, we have a great offer for auto insura…

Except for the last, those are just lies that people in power find inconvenient. People were saying way more ridiculous things in the summer of 1787, and yet the country I live in enshrined free speech rights.

They also enshrined slavery, assuming you mean the US. Who cares what they enshrined? They have no credibility. If the merit of the argument holds no weight, then the fact that “the founding fathers” made it doesn’t make it more (or less) correct.
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