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Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

justice.gov

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Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#441

Post by q1w2 »

jakogut wrote: post #62
reustle wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People would grind off the serial numbers and sell them on the secondary market, or for the metals. With motorcycles, for example, motors and frames have vin numbers stamped to help prevent this, but you’ll sometimes see cheap parts for sale with the vin cleaned off.

In case anyone thinks this is cost prohibitive or the tooling is rare, a $100 battery powered grinder you can buy from Home Depot will do this in five seconds. If you have a little less money and a little more time, a $5 flat file will do the same thing in a few minutes.

The issue then becomes "plausible deniability". You cannot claim you didn't know they were stolen if the serial number is ground off.

So whomever grind the numbers off, may as well cut it open and extract the metals. It puts a major obstacle in the supply chain.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#442

Post by friend_and_foe »

nkrisc wrote: post #431
friend_and_foe wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not worth your life then don't steal it.

Then perhaps the punishment for every crime and infraction should be summary execution. Blow a stop sign? Execution. Over the speed limit? Execution. Stole an apple from the grocery store? Execution. Sounds like a perfect society?

Don't be ridiculous, there's nothing perfect about a society like that.

When you infringe on the rights of another human being, you put yourself at their mercy. Some people are not very reasonable. Legal or illegal, you just might find yourself attacked by that person, possibly killed. Even if you make laws against it, there's always that danger. Every time you violate the rights of another person you're risking your life, and it doesn't matter what the law says.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#443

Post by friend_and_foe »

khazhoux wrote: post #268
friend_and_foe wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not worth your life then don't steal it.

That's not an argument at all. You could insert any crime into that statement... "If it's not worth your life, then don't commit vehicle registration fraud."

Only if you deliberately ignore the plain distinction between vehicle registration fraud and stealing a person's stuff.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#444

Post by mrguyorama »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #384
themitigating wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tesla model 3 battery weighs over 1000lbs

They are able to lift whole car in a daylight to steal a catalytic converter. 500kg battery is nothing.

Nobody is jacking up a car to get to the cat. You just slide under with a $50 harbor freight sawzall and spend two minutes making two cuts.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#445

Post by mrguyorama »

brian_cunnie wrote: post #419
magicalist wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've never experienced the indifference of a cop taking a property crime report and the complete lack of follow up, just pick a place and you can look at non-violent crime clearance rate. They really don't care.

> They [the police] really don't care I don't think it's something you can lay at the feet of the SF Police Department. I asked Pete McLaughlin, SFPD (retired), why the police don't go after bike thieves more aggressively. "Our hands are tied," he said. "They [the thieves] know the most we can do is give them a citation, and they'll be out that afternoon." California has a history of being lenient with non-violent cr…

Asking a cop about why they didn't do their job is like asking a dev how their bug ended up in prod. You'll get an answer, but it will neither sate your desire for improvement, or actually shed light on any systemic issues.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#446

Post by mrguyorama »

thepasswordis wrote: post #345
mieko wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah: No one thinks it's mechanically difficult to remove identifiers. The point is to make such altered parts illegal to buy. Similar to VIN restrictions or handgun signifiers in many states.

The thieves do not care about this and neither do the scrappers. They’ll both grind the serials off within a minute of taking possession if they’re still there.

The point is that a cat with ground identifier is just as illegal to possess as one that is definitely stolen.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#447

Post by mrguyorama »

bluGill wrote: post #410
mieko wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah: Literally make it illegal for shops to possess the platinum or palladium without documentation of provenance. Unless you're cool with the thefts that are going on, or think any government regulation is "overstepping."

You can process those metals in your backyard with a bag of charcoal. Sure industrial processes will extract more, but the backyard processes work.

Who is methhead steve selling his backyard, low yield, low grade platinum to? The value is because an industrial process can recover clean platinum.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#448

Post by notch656a »

nkrisc wrote: post #431
friend_and_foe wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not worth your life then don't steal it.

Then perhaps the punishment for every crime and infraction should be summary execution. Blow a stop sign? Execution. Over the speed limit? Execution. Stole an apple from the grocery store? Execution. Sounds like a perfect society?

Uninvited fucking with critical systems of someone's primary method of transit/escape/transportation to medical care/grocery etc, especially with a sawzall under the body of the vehicle, causes a reasonable person to fear for their life.

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#449

Post by [deleted] »

thepasswordis wrote: post #341

Here’s how to solve this problem instantly: If your converter is stolen, and a police report is filed, that vehicle is now emissions exempt for the rest of its life and can just have a straight pipe installed. Now there’s a MASSIVE incentive on behalf of the state to solve the converter theft problem.

[deleted]

Re: Justice Department announces takedown of catalytic converter theft ring

#450

Post by scotty79 »

from wrote: post #218
scotty79 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not really reasonable to hold the refinery at fault Why not? They accepted $500mil of stolen property. It's only fair to take at least as much from them. "I didn't know" is not an excuse. If you buy stolen car it will be taken away from you. You pay for your mistake and buying stolen goods is a mistake.

Hammurabi agrees with you ( https://avalon.law.yale.edu/ancient/hamframe.asp ): 6. If any one steal the property of a temple or of the court, he shall be put to death, and also the one who receives the stolen thing from him shall be put to death. 9. If any one lose an article, and find it in the possession of another: if the person in whose possession the thing is found say "A merchant sold it to me, I paid for it be…

The point of punishing the rafinery is for them to figure out next time how could they know if this powder was stolen or not.

The role of companies is to undertake risks in exchange for profit. They have all the incentives and tools to lower the risk they took wherever possible. If company can't be punished for buying stolen goods then there's no risk and society has to take the risk and the costs. Which makes no sense because whole purpose of private companies is offloading risk from the hands of people that don't want it into the hands of people that do.

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