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Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

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Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#441

Post by giantg2 »

systemvoltage wrote: post #413
novok wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an american disease, maybe even californian. Go to many other cities in the rest of the world and they have denser, better cities with none of the literal shit. IMO I would barely call most of the bay a city, just a semi-dense suburb for the most part beyond a few pockets.

There are very specific criminal justice reform and soft-on-crime policies that lead to this. If you go to Tokyo, you'll be put in jail for doing drugs. Most likely extremely tough prison sentence of a decade or more. It prevents people from doing drugs and getting trapped in the spiraling destruction of self. Here in America, we have NYC and SF opening clinics to comfortably allow people to shoot heroine in the comf…

Eh, I don't think it's so causal. In my mind it's the culture that keeps crime low and the laws have merely been created to reflect the values of that culture.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#442

Post by pclmulqdq »

x86x87 wrote: post #322
pclmulqdq wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing that if a rich, white or Asian tech worker decided to loot a Walgreens, they would get the book thrown at them. Look at the small business owners in New York who get arrested and charged with everything possible by the DA's office for defending themselves (until public pressure forces them to back down). That's where we are. This is what the people voted for, though.

I mean... Are you saying that there is social inequality? There is a risk/reward analysis that should go into the decision to loot a Walgreens. If you have nothing to lose or are desperate you're more likely to give 0 fucks and the system just has to deal with you.

I'm saying that the way we run society tilts that risk/reward payoff absurdly in favor of reward for a certain class of people by eliminating their risk. That is, by definition, unjust.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#443

Post by vkou »

chasebank wrote: post #426
carom wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cops have been useless for a long time. It is why everyone currently hates them. They don't work for us. They don't protect us. They extract money from us to justify their existence. Truly useless.

You'd find out very quickly how truly heinous humans can be without a police force.

Yes, it's easy for humans to behave in truly heinous ways if you give them the power to inflict violence on you, with next to no accountability counterbalancing it.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#444

Post by dahfizz »

mancerayder wrote: post #418
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reading this headline I thought to myself, this can't be possible. But then I remembered It's funny, this is exactly what happens when I talk to my SF friends about crime. They have an immediate defensive reaction to insist it's not that bad, but then they slowly start recalling various crime experiences they've had in the past year . It's as if the constant background level of crime has reset their expectations of…

Isn't part of that the forced-positive culture of California? Combined with perhaps a dose of worry that complaining about crime might identify you with the wrong political party?

> a dose of worry that complaining about crime might identify you with the wrong political party?

What a crazy world we live in, where not wanting to be mugged and have your stuff stolen is politically unpopular....

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#445

Post by carom »

derekbaker783 wrote: post #328
birdyrooster wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure being stabbed would leave anyone “fine”. The traumatic memories can last for years.

It probably depends. When I was a (fairly reckless) teenager, I got into a fight and got "stabbed" in my side (minor wound). Honestly, it's not something I consider as traumatic. It _was_ an effective way to stop the fight though.

I have dogs and love dogs. Play really rough with mine, let her chew on me. I got bit (tooth punctured, not just scratched) by a small white dog. It made me nervous around small dogs for a solid year.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#446

Post by recursive »

galangalalgol wrote: post #290
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reading this headline I thought to myself, this can't be possible. But then I remembered It's funny, this is exactly what happens when I talk to my SF friends about crime. They have an immediate defensive reaction to insist it's not that bad, but then they slowly start recalling various crime experiences they've had in the past year . It's as if the constant background level of crime has reset their expectations of…

My response was "only half?". Seriously, isn't this true everywhere? I've jad things stolen in small towns and in big cities that are "tough on crime" and have citizens that vote for that. Theft is just part of life right? If I've just lived in bad places, where would one suggest that most people don't experience theft?

I've left my bike in front of my house for at least 100 nights, non-consecutively. No problems.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#447

Post by perspectivesf1 »

mcntsh wrote: post #353
tchaffee wrote: post #132

Here's a good place to compare to other cities, if comparing is even a reasonable thing to do [1]. Sort by Total for Property Crime. Notably Albuquerque, Spokane, and Memphis have higher total property crime rates. But perhaps wouldn't make such an interesting headline for those in tech. Also notable that Orlando, FL is high on the list. But Irvine, CA and Tampa, FL are at the bottom of the list. Please also read the…

I guess the shocking part is that you have all of this theft and crime and grit, all happening around people making hundreds of thousands a year living in multi million dollar houses. Go look at the tax revenue of San Francisco vs Albuquerque. It's unacceptable for a city so rich to have such a dismal quality of life.

What would theft harm per dollar of income look like, instead of 1+ experiences per resident?

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#448

Post by pclmulqdq »

jacobolus wrote: post #327
pclmulqdq wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing that if a rich, white or Asian tech worker decided to loot a Walgreens, they would get the book thrown at them. Look at the small business owners in New York who get arrested and charged with everything possible by the DA's office for defending themselves (until public pressure forces them to back down). That's where we are. This is what the people voted for, though.

This is total nonsense. Wealthy professionals regularly get away with much more egregious thefts than petty shoplifting, the police do a lot more harassment of poor people than rich people, and lack of response to shoplifting is not about race.

What thefts do software engineers regularly get away with? I've never heard of a software engineer committing wage theft, for example.

I'm not saying that police should hassle someone for sleeping on the street. I'm saying they should arrest people for stealing stuff. That's not harassment. That's justice.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#449

Post by pclmulqdq »

peyton wrote: post #438
hattmall wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resources, risk v reward. Unless you go with something like broken window theory and wish to use shoplifting to ultimately deter more serious crimes, it's not worth enforcing via government action. If you want to know where shop lifting is taken seriously, it's Walmart. If you steal from Walmart, they know it, they know who you are and it goes in your file. They will bust you at a felony amount level with all the evi…

There are no Walmarts in SF. I would love to see that approach in SF.

There's a reason there are no Walmarts in SF.

Re: Nearly Half of San Franciscans Have Been Victims of Theft, New Poll Says

#450

Post by jcranmer »

ColonelTrick wrote: post #303
nullc wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rampant organized bike theft is particularly obnoxious not only is the theft disproportionately impactful relative to the value since you needed the bike for transportation-- but it's particularly easy to do something about it because its so organized and large scale: Put out bait bikes with trackers and/or surveillance. (and plus, when you bust a big operation and now have a ton of bikes whos owners can't be loc…

I think this is much harder in practice. These “honeypots” are often considered entrapment and cause the case to get thrown out.

Um... no? Entrapment is about being induced to commit a crime you wouldn't otherwise have committed, and it's a lot more relevant for things like drugs or terrorist plots where the government information is outright giving you the things that's illegal for you to have.

For theft, it's quite hard to think of a situation where someone could put you in a state of mind that stealing this thing isn't against the law. The closest I can come is a signed statement by the police department saying "it's not against the law to steal this," and that's more because some jurisdictions will give you the defense if the government lies to you about the law. (And I suspect it still wouldn't qualify because it isn't exactly reasonable to believe that theft could be legal.)

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