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Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

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Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#441

Post by angry_octet »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #433
angry_octet wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To inject some expertise: "Enforcement of Judgments in the United States: Overview" https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/w-034-2858

Thank you! this largely agrees with the link I posted 7 hours ago. Particularly relevant, is that if you want to collect in the US, you have to go to the courts in the US and show them the foreign judgment. There are many circumstances where these are not accepted. >Juppor is talking about suing in Florida courts. Florida is absolutely at will. He may be able to sue to collect a foreign court judgement instead

I think it would be a fairly clear cut debt case. It might take a bit of lawyering to collect on the debt, but there are firms which would take it on a contingency basis.

If they are trying to avoid payment it will kink any activity in the EU, all over a relatively paltry sum.

The lesson though is that if you're dealing with potential shysters, like NFT promoters and other dodgy stuff this firm is doing (who else pays 70k Euro per year plus commissions to telemarketers??) then make sure they have assets in your jurisdiction that you can put a lien on, and ideally require cash up front.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#442

Post by dekleinewolf »

malshe wrote: post #327
unity1001 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But for most of us the things are not this bad. I am a professor If you are a professor, you are not one of the 'most of us'. For most, things are really that bad. https://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/13/americas-dirty-little-secret... There are millions of working families where both parents and even children work and yet they still suffer hunger.

My comment unintentionally sounded like I was talking about all the other Americans. I meant to say most of us in the middle class. I am acutely aware that poverty in the US is real. When I talk to my academic friends in Europe and we compare salaries (it's quite common to do that because in the US our salaries are public if we work in state universities), we usually come out with the conclusion that in the US we hav…

But isn't that a completely unfair comparison?

"Yeah, if you disregard all the poor people that struggle to stay alive, us rich people are generally much richer".

I think your exact statement is probably true. Because most European countries tries to distribute wealth in such a way that everyone gets to live, with food, healthcare, education and housing. And naturally that means that the 50% wealthiest in Europe are less wealthy than the 50% wealthiest in the US.

But the 50% poorest in Europe are much wealthier than the 50% poorest in the US.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#443

Post by phpisthebest »

lagadu wrote: post #319
phpisthebest wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has the very very close connotation to "from each according to ability to each according to need" I live a very frugle life, my expenses are low, I have no kids, I dont take expensive vacations, drive a fancy car, etc... So should that mean I do not get time off, or high raises, etc simply because my "needs" are not the same as a co-worker? Why should a co-workers personal life choices (i.e the choice to have 1…

> Should the programmer with 5 kids make more than the programmer with no kids simply because the programmer with kids has more expenses? The programmer with 5 kids does make more than the one with no kids because he pays fewer income taxes. So the answer to your question is yes: it's how it already works.

No my question was should they. I also disagree with the Child tax credit.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#444

Post by Jochim »

phpisthebest wrote: post #233
Jochim wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think the only problem with current taxes is the primitive nature of the bands in most cases and that non-labour income is often taxed far less heavily. Progressive taxation is our most effective tool for ensuring that a few people don't end up owning everything. For those of us who end up wealthier than the rest it's the price you pay for society providing you with a healthy, educated workforce, currenc…

Well that leads to another problem, because I do not equate government with "society" nor do I believe government is the only, or best way for society to provide " a healthy, educated workforce, currency, roads etc. " In fact history shows that government is generally pretty poor at providing any of those things

> nor do I believe government is the only, or best way for society to provide " a healthy, educated workforce, currency, roads etc. "

To me the obvious flaw in this type of society has always been that it provides no guard against the concentration of wealth and by proxy power. It works with a theoretical amorphous blob of people who have no ties to location and an infinite supply of land and resources. In reality the populace would quickly become slaves, with the only interest of the organisations in control of their food, shelter, and transport being the extraction of ever larger sums of money.

I'm honestly not sure how someone could look at the state of the corporate world and say "I wish these guys controlled more of my life". We've already seen this type of rent seeking become prominent in digital media and it hasn't improved anything for the populace.

The profit motive is functional enough for things that aren't necessities but we know exactly what happens when a profit driven entity has a near or local monopoly on something necessary for life. Look to the early railroads and company towns as an example.

> In fact history shows that government is generally pretty poor at providing any of those things

That's a bold claim without any proof. I'd argue the opposite. The vast majority of the population is now both numerate and literate and most countries have a usable road and rail network that's accessible to everyone. Beyond that government programs have been responsible for the eradication of multiple diseases.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#445

Post by Kbelicius »

phpisthebest wrote: post #233
Jochim wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think the only problem with current taxes is the primitive nature of the bands in most cases and that non-labour income is often taxed far less heavily. Progressive taxation is our most effective tool for ensuring that a few people don't end up owning everything. For those of us who end up wealthier than the rest it's the price you pay for society providing you with a healthy, educated workforce, currenc…

Well that leads to another problem, because I do not equate government with "society" nor do I believe government is the only, or best way for society to provide " a healthy, educated workforce, currency, roads etc. " In fact history shows that government is generally pretty poor at providing any of those things

> In fact history shows that government is generally pretty poor at providing any of those things

And who does history shows as being better at it?

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#446

Post by ianai »

lucb1e wrote: post #109
ianai wrote: post #72

Unfortunately this is well within corporate “go away” money. They’ll gladly dish over 75k to get a threat off their books. It’s the corporate equivalent to stuffing 20 bucks in your pocket in case you’re held up while out on a run and don’t carry your wallet. Add a zero to make it 750k if you want corporations to think about it deeper.

Keep in mind that this is not about punishment but about damages. 75k goes a long way for an individual and afaik we don't have this system of punitive damages. The state might collect punitive money in a criminal case (not a civil case). Sometimes I feel like it might be good to meet in the middle (i.e. some amount of punishment awarded to the plaintiff, also as compensation for having had to take a corporation to c…

I doubt 75k is the 20x monthly income financial professionals suggest to carry in case of unexpected unemployment for this position. Works out to less than 15.50/hr.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#447

Post by anticensor »

michalu wrote: post #434
gnicholas wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can the legal fees be less than a thousand dollars? It would take at least a few hours to research the law and write a brief, let alone prepare for court and make an appearance. Even if a lawyer was paid only $150/hr, it seems hard to come in under $1k. Regardless, it would certainly be much more expensive in the US, where decent lawyers are hundreds or thousands an hour.

Europe doesn't have case law, the law is written and codified so once you finish law school you have all the laws memorized. The judge can only apply specific paragraph of the law not create new ones. 1k is cheap yes, 5k would in such case be more reasonable to expect if you're in a similar situation if you go with a lawyer (depending on firm and location i.e. lawyer in big city vs provincial town)

> Europe doesn't have case law

Case law is a thing in civil law systems too, it is just not binding on the judges except special occasions.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#448

Post by unity1001 »

watwut wrote: post #438
unity1001 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they aren't. Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal are staying away from it as much as possible. Many central European countries, the same. This is an Anglosaxon + Germanic project, with the addition of Poland. Its their war. ... There can be no bigger enemy than the country that blew up European pipelines to sink European industry. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-09/european-...

You will be shocked to find out that Czech Republic, Estonia, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia are all EU countries. All are full members actually - no less then Italy or France. And yes, Italy is rather pro-Russia. And you are wrong in other way too - Germany does everything possible to not deliver arms to Ukraine. They are tempted by that Russian money and did not get off the imperial against east think…

Traditional Russian enemies, coupled with a few central European states. Much smaller economies of the Eu, leave aside not founding members, less, members of the G7.

> And yes, Italy is rather pro-Russia.

Its not "rather". Entire south Europe wants to avoid this US proxy war.

> They are tempted by that Russian money and did not get off the imperial against east thinking entirely.

Yeah, instead they should drop whatever thinking they have, become an Angloamerican colony, and get into an actual war with Russia on their behalf. Sure makes sense.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#449

Post by unity1001 »

astrange wrote: post #432
unity1001 wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Japanese economy is healthy relative to the rest of the world It is frozen at the exact size and breadth that US wanted to freeze it. Its a literal economic colony. > But this is mostly because "sacrificing and hardworking" was a dumb thing to set up the country to be It worked until 1991. I very much recommedn reading about the Plaza Accords.

Impressive you think the US can influence other countries that long. We can't even stop Saudi Arabia from raising gas prices whenever they want to annoy us.

> Impressive you think the US can influence other countries that long

Up until recently, it was a given. In the case of Japan, there is some kind of feudal behavior of 'loyalty' that comes from the Zaibatsu culture. Which in itself descended from postwar Yakuza.

> We can't even stop Saudi Arabia from raising gas prices whenever they want to annoy us.

You used to. Until Russia & China built up enough defense industry and also started helping any country against US coups and color revolutions by providing intelligence.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#450

Post by s1artibartfast »

angry_octet wrote: post #441
s1artibartfast wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! this largely agrees with the link I posted 7 hours ago. Particularly relevant, is that if you want to collect in the US, you have to go to the courts in the US and show them the foreign judgment. There are many circumstances where these are not accepted. >Juppor is talking about suing in Florida courts. Florida is absolutely at will. He may be able to sue to collect a foreign court judgement instead

I think it would be a fairly clear cut debt case. It might take a bit of lawyering to collect on the debt, but there are firms which would take it on a contingency basis. If they are trying to avoid payment it will kink any activity in the EU, all over a relatively paltry sum. The lesson though is that if you're dealing with potential shysters, like NFT promoters and other dodgy stuff this firm is doing (who else pay…

I think you are probably right. It is worth noting that most of the money at stake isnt simple debt like back wages. It looks like the lion's share is essentially punitive damages. I am not a lawyer, so I don't know where this falls in relation to types of decisions that are applicable.
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