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Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022

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Re: Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022

#441
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hilarious, because for someone with a literal degree in physics he doesn't seem to understand the physics at all

I don't find it hilarious. It is rather sad that stupid people who know nothing about physics, end up billionaires through tech companies/innocations, while physics genius like you remain anonymous on the internet.

Ah yes, money. The most important metric by which we must judge all people and ideas

Re: Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022

#442
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Elephant in the room is that Musk is pretty much the perfect example of what makes Twitter terrible, and Dorsey had more than enough opportunity to fix it because he was literally in charge of the company for years and did nothing. All the shit Musk is throwing at Twitter now is stuff Dorsey was responsible for.

Alternative explanation is that the board brought Dorsey back because they were toxic and wanted someone they could contain/control. Dorsey comes back out of love and is trapped by his attachment to the possibility, but has unconsciously accepted he can never achieve it. The “CEO is/isn’t a job” argument above is reflected in this. Dorsey wasn’t ever Jobs, or Michael Dell. They wouldn’t have brought him back if he wa…

Dorsey was never the controllable option, his net worth is tied into his other weird crypto scam, not twitter. He might have come back out of love, but he never showed twitter the attention it deserved- at a minimum, working 9-5 on twitter not block.

Re: Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Normally, I do not think it has to be explicitly said, but this time it may be necessary. Speech that is not offensive does not require protection. If I say sun is shining, people will not try to deplatform me. Offensive ( and legal ) speech might cause that to happen. This is not acceptable and not part of the promise of this nation. And this is where some universal standards are necessary. But right now it is…

If it is a public square, then it is so because the majority of people choose to use it because of the controls and filtering and exclusion of "undesirables". If it's a company with a reach in billions that's because it provides, in its current form including filtering, a service that is valued (in attention time, if not dollars) by its users. If one compels a Twitter to host things it has decided people don't want t…

> If it is a public square, then it is so because the majority of people choose to use it because of the controls and filtering and exclusion of "undesirables". If it's a company with a reach in billions that's because it provides, in its current form including filtering, a service that is valued (in attention time, if not dollars) by its users.

I don't think that's the case, honestly, it's a pretty explanation, but people aren't on these platforms for that, they're on these platforms because it's where come critical mass was hit, and from that tipping point these apparati were ossified. And as they became a nucleation point for all of this, their volume grew, and with that so did the content - which is crucial if content generation on the platform respects the 1% rule. And that new content is what creates the feedback loop, which is also ostensibly directly proportional with the size viola, positive feedback loop to some arbitrary user saturation point.

For example, some Youtubers have discussed it, but relocation would be a huge investment, and quite a bit of their data would be lost because they don't have archives that run back to the inception of the channel. In much the same way reputation, clout, followers and et cetera would actually go through translation losses as someone or some company transitioned from A to B, and servicing two platforms is more difficult than one (which will likely not be lucrative). It's a huge moat.

>If one compels a Twitter...

What is the actual end of this? You're not eliminating these people, nor their opinions. You're alienating them. The best case scenario is a dialectic which ultimately causes them to question their viewpoint, not to reinforce it by arbitrarily castigating them and exiling them from the public discourse. In the case where some platform does remove them, they'll find another with less criticism - an echochamber - which, to wit, only stands to exacerbate the problem.

It seems less about some class of deplorables and more about their observers. As to their rationale, the primary motive I suspect, is profit via demographic sprawl, not some humanitarian concern. And this can be imputed to the individual as much as the corporation or institution. By my reckoning this is a hazard in and of itself because it's purely superficial and thus both misguided and misapprehended - one half of that becoming concrete realizations of naive intervention and the other setting some anti-human benchmark that doesn't actually make sense. And of course the feedback people and institutions read is from some extremely small proportion of the population so it's already set up for a form of extremity by default.

And is anybody really defending ultrawealthy individuals in such a way? I don't know anybody that really condones the idea that wealth should be able to have a hard and cheap translation into hard power as it does in this instance. And there's also the fact that Twitter is a legal fiction, whose foundation is rooted in not just the concepts of property rights outlined and enforced by the US Government, but additionally is accessed and deployed through a heavily subsidized technology that was previously publicly owned and developed with taxpayer dollars. The Kochs are private persons, period.

Re: Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022

#444
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True - but most founders don't have any of those. I know many, many founders. They were all broke as f*ck for years to build it, living off a spouse working ... to magically exit. It ain't money, it's hard work eschewing the other opportunities many so quickly jump at. It's being there building long enough to have "the timing" work out for you. Or it's being so right with timing that you in essence lucked on that par…

"living off a spouse working" is not exactly "broke as f*ck". If that disappears, then yes, is mostly about money.

2 people 1 middle income wage with kids (most I knew had young kids).... is close to scraping by. Some were on foodstamps. Meaning - it can be done by many in the U.S. - that's the take-a-way for everyone reading this.

Re: Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022

#445
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True - but most founders don't have any of those. I know many, many founders. They were all broke as f*ck for years to build it, living off a spouse working ... to magically exit. It ain't money, it's hard work eschewing the other opportunities many so quickly jump at. It's being there building long enough to have "the timing" work out for you. Or it's being so right with timing that you in essence lucked on that par…

I mean my anecdote vs. your anecdote, but every successful founder I have ever met had significant personal resources that allowed them to take almost no personal risk, and in most cases they had immense resources that gave them a significant leg up. I have never, ever seen a successful founder who was broke, unless they were a college student in which case broke is not really as useful a descriptor.

Choose your own storyline version. If you don't think you can do it because you're not rich - you're right. If you know you can do it because you are not - you're right.

Re: Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022

#446
post #186

There's an axiom in discussions here where Twitter needs saving. Why? In what way is it non successful? In what way is it broken? I mean most Twitter discussions I ever saw are disgusting or plain dumb mascarading as profound. I don't think the medium of a public square like that is a good thing, and I would be happy to see its demise. But it seems successful in the way it usually lead the public discourse similarly…

I think there's two answers to this question. For Musk, the answer is pretty clearly that he thinks Twitter is poorly run as a business and has no respect or confidence in their management. He thinks he can change the company to make more money. For all the VC types he's texting with, Twitter is broken because it bans people, and because (they believe) those bans are biased against conservatives. The ban (actually a…

I didn't see a coherent claim by musk about the business side of Twitter. What are his qualms? He shitposts all the time, he sends his masses of fan boys to pile on adversaries. These are exactly the type of things that makes Twitter a cesspool. I guess expecting integrity and coherence from ppl who are the new royalty is anachronistic on my part.

It's all about power and influence. The rest is just show.

Re: Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022

#447
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do I get the feeling this is where everyone who got banned from twitter goes to hang out... we need to let go of this mindset that there are undesirables in this world. there will always be a 'stable diffusion' seeking equilibrium between the places that censor and the places that dont, and the people impacted by those rule parameters will move to the places that dont censor, which will bring non mainstream ide…

> there are undesirables in this world. Sure there are undesirables in the world wide web: neo-nazies, Q-anon, pedos & NAMBLA, Russian propaganda, spammers and carders etc. Any platform that protects the freedom of speech for fringe groups will become a haven for them and will be eventually abandoned by mainstream users.

There's a big difference between:

> I believe there really are undesirables -- people who have demonstrated an inability to participate in civil society and who eventually drive away or drown out all other perspectives in a community.

and

> Sure there are undesirables in the world wide web: neo-nazies, Q-anon, pedos & NAMBLA, Russian propaganda, spammers and carders etc.

Where pre listing categories and ideas that are explicitly wrongthink, versus people able to participate in a community following guidelines and an etiquette. It's not at all funny or surprising, that each community that adopts the latter, find the list growing until it's a niche community by exclusion.

The idea that any meeting place that says it's for "free thinking" or "all ideas" is a mistake. Most communities want to stick to some niche topic and use the "open" phrasing to try to grow any participation at all.

Re: Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022

#448
post #2

For someone invested in decentralized protocols, it just sounds like people trying to reinvent the wheel. "let’s make it decentralized" "wow, very cool idea". Those guys are business guys but they have no idea what they are talking about. They don’t know the first bit about technical decentralization, about prior art, about the politics involved. They are so close of realizing that their companies are Frankenstein mo…

> Twitter started as a protocol. It should have never been a company. That was the original sin. Dorsey seems to have figured it out.

No he’s just making shit up. That statement of his is completely untrue.

Re: Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022

#449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did none of that single-handedly though. Thousands, maybe millions of ours of man hours went into making all that happen. What spurred my original comment was that when I hear him talk, I think he does fail to acknowledge the people around him a little to conveniently. I don't care, I just don't think it's a good quality and I think longer term, it will probably lead to him having lower performing teams and people…

>He did none of that single-handedly though Can you name some engineering accomplishments that have been done "single-handedly" and thus qualify as real engineering?

No because nearly every single complicated thing we’ve done, every problem solved has likely been done on the back of prior knowledge or technologies which were provided by others, there in lies my point.

You watch someone like Musk and you enjoy the spectacle and the idea of an engineering hero billionaire, or you realise that while he may have brilliant ideas and moments, I find he often fails to acknowledge the fact that he isn’t an island and even if he says things like, “I have a great team” I think it’s not enough because I’m generally one of those people who spends a LOT of time solving problems for other people within a team to help make complicated things happen…I wouldn’t have the time to go on TV half of the time which I why I likely know who is doing the real work.

Re: Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk, March 26, 2022

#450
post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He did none of that single-handedly though. Thousands, maybe millions of ours of man hours went into making all that happen. What spurred my original comment was that when I hear him talk, I think he does fail to acknowledge the people around him a little to conveniently. I don't care, I just don't think it's a good quality and I think longer term, it will probably lead to him having lower performing teams and people…

> What spurred my original comment was that when I hear him talk, I think he does fail to acknowledge the people around him a little to conveniently I'm not sure if you're being facetious here. There are countless examples that exhibit the contrary. Here is one as recent as a few days ago: https://youtu.be/goT5gW57Chc?t=190 Below are a few (out of many others) prior examples: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/10515…

See my comment below but TL;DR I’d like to hear a bit more about “the great team” rather than Musk because I know behind that interview what hard work people are going through to make the things he is showing off happen.

“Great job team…thanks for making me trillions”

https://twitter.com/heydave7/status/1536015578091048960

This one , as someone who often reads these types of mails is just a pep talk, to tell someone they respect me more than a rich person isn’t very flattering.

Look I think you just like Elon Musk a lot. I don’t mind him either, I just know almost all of his success is built on the back of a lot of hard working individuals, which I think is pretty hidden behind a dude in XXXL T-shirts

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