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Why aren't smart people happier?

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Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#441
This is a question I have been giving some thought to. I am certainly not a genius, and I have known many people smarter than I am, but I have cognitive abilities above the average of the population and of my social circle.

But we associate and measure intelligence (think g) with respect, broadly speaking, to abstract problem solving; it is mathematical ability, logical thinking, shape rotation, vocabulary, working memory. In fact, for people who are "smart," but not in the sense we normally associate with that term (e.g., typically not good at math), we use "street smarts." Picasso, who was an artistic genius, is not defined as "intelligent," and we don't say, "Picasso was an artist, why wasn't he happy (assuming he wasn't)?

The idea is that happiness and cognitive ability live in the same space, but why should that be true? All of us have seen many people with low IQs happy, cheerful, satisfied. We might think it's because they don't understand much, and we'd be approaching an important insight.

Why are we surprised that smart people are not as happy as we think they should be (which is not true, as far as the literature tells us), but not that smart people are not more physically fit (if you are so smart, you can't lift weights three times a week on a rational program, can't you use your brain to eat moderately and be satisfied with 2k calories instead of 5k), and not that smart people don't get laid as much as we think they should, since that should be a positively selected trait?

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#442
Appreciate many of the points made in there. However, I still don’t see why intelligence should make one happier, and why when we don’t observe that in data it should be worth mentioning.

I grew up in a culture that did not talk about being happy or cared about objectifying happiness in any way. In fact, we don’t even have good words for it that would be separate from other notions. Growing up, I only ever experienced people talking about if they were healthy or satisfied or enjoying life.

This is a long way of saying that perhaps, it’s not only about calling out the vagueness and ambiguity of “intelligence”, but about considering that the term “happiness” also deserves the same degree of scrutiny. It, too, lacks a clear objective definition and comes with a lot of subjective and cultural ambiguity.

Maybe asking why one ambiguous undefinable thing doesn’t cause or correlate with another ambiguous undefinable thing is a futile statistical exercise to begin with?

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#443

I’ve seen some other studies that say the opposite and I’m generally skeptical of results that come out of the GSS (it’s too easy to data dredge). There’s a decent amount of evidence that IQ positively correlates with happiness. Here’s a study I found real quick: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22998852/ Results: Happiness is significantly associated with IQ. Those in the lowest IQ range (70-99) reported the lowest l…

This sounds pretty intuitive, that smarter people should have better lives in general.

Why? I'd think the opposite.

Smart people will on average probably be better of financially, but that doesn't transfer directly to happiness.

A characteristic of "smart people" is the ability to identify and solve problems across a range of domains. That works well when the problem is some programming task, drawing a new house, gathering data for a report you write or whatever.

But what if you identify problems you cannot solve? E.g. a smart person might realize, that the "American democracy" is fundamentally broken, but there's no way to solve this (vote all you want, the top of both parties gets their way anyway, so unless you're 100% aligned with Pelosi or Trump you're shafted). A smart person will identify the challenges their children have and will try to solve it by choosing the right school, but will fret forever that it wasn't the right choice.

A not-so-smart person will believe, that as long as his party wins the next election everything will be better. A not-so-smart person will send their children to the default school for the district where they live.

So a smart person will every day identify problems there are out of their realm to solve. They know their actions only have very limited - and perhaps even detrimental - impact on solving these things. All the while the not-so-smart people goes with the flow, doesn't worry too much, because they don't realize there was a problem to begin with.

(I'm doing "averages" here. Of course a not-so-smart and poor person might be acutely aware of their dire financial situation which reflects negatively on their happiness, but at least they're being told they have the power to change that)

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#444
post #34

I'm not especially smart, or happy, but, personally, I don't know how to be it, or what it feels like. I know pleasure, but being in a constant pleasurable state is not what is meant by happiness as far as I know. Slavoj Žižek (someone who does seem to be especially smart): “Happiness was never important. The problem is that we don't know what we really want. What makes us happy is not to get what we want. But to dre…

There's a beautiful poem by Giovanni Pascoli, "Aléxandros" in which Alexander the Great gets to the Indus river with his army after having conquered half of Asia; he knows it's the end of his conquest and thinks - it was better when I was dreaming of it, I was happier when more challenges, road, destiny where ahead than behind.

I feel like that when I finish the week's grocery shopping

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#445
Smart people are just as given as anybody to the idea that happiness is about controlling outcomes, hence they are no happier. The desire to control outcomes is correlated with unhappiness because that very desire is predicated on the belief that happiness is a small target - if one would be happy with any outcome then there'd be no need to control which one eventuates. Put another way: happy people aren't the ones who win every game of chess, happy people just like playing chess.

Another aspect of this is that smart people - people good at solving well-defined problems - tend to see well-defined problems everywhere, tend to try and reduce things to well-defined problems, so that they can apply their unique gifts. This manifests as an apparent discomfort with ambiguity, which poses a problem, because comfort with, or at least an openness to, ambiguity is a prerequisite for happiness. The analytical mind is quick to label things and categorise them, including whether they are good or bad, but I find that happiness is more about refraining from applying such labels to things.

It's like with dealing with an incident. The unhappy say "the website is down, this is terrible", whereas the happy merely say "the website is down".

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#446
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To claim that having kids makes you happier in the long-term requires comparing against the control group of childless adults. Last I checked, there was no appreciable difference in happiness between these groups in middle age.

The study I read about claimed the opposite - in later stages of life, parents are happier than childless people.

From the data I've seen, the strongest predictors of happiness are maintaining strong social ties. Children are only one way to do that. I've seen no data suggesting having children specifically is associated with more happiness at any stage of life.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, hedonism is underrated.

Some elaboration on your opinion would provide a greater contribution to the discussion. As an aside however, 'Henry' in Oscar Wilde's A Picture of Dorian Gray provided the most beautiful and articulate defence of hedonism I have ever read. But I am still convinced that in relation to the project of the promotion of ones long-term well-being hedonism is a philosophical and psychological dead-end. In my own experience…

> Generally the people who were most concerned about others well-being were gifted with a light and pleasant demeanour

Kinda like the light and pleasant demeanor of Robin Williams? This is crazy ovservation bias, you have no idea of the actual, lived experiences of these people. Honestly, my experience is that people who really suffer with depression are consistently some of the nicest, most thoughtful people. They understand how shitty it is to be down and do as much as they are capable of to try and stop the spread and help themselves, and being appreciative and positive are, as you point out, pretty excellent at making one feel better. People who are constant downers and negative, in my experience, are more self-obsessed and trying to get something.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds pretty intuitive, that smarter people should have better lives in general.

Why? I'd think the opposite. Smart people will on average probably be better of financially, but that doesn't transfer directly to happiness. A characteristic of "smart people" is the ability to identify and solve problems across a range of domains. That works well when the problem is some programming task, drawing a new house, gathering data for a report you write or whatever. But what if you identify problems you c…

> Smart people will on average probably be better of financially, but that doesn't transfer directly to happiness.

eh, not exactly true: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2016976118

> But what if you identify problems you cannot solve?

then you shouldn't take it personally

Re: Why aren't smart people happier?

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unsolicited advice from some random guy on the internet: Don't start down that road. Material success will always be just over the next hill, regardless of how much you already have. Happiness and satisfaction can't come from accomplishment or material gain.

Compared to what it was like when I was working at Walmart...? Yeah, material gain has certainly made me a thousand times happier. I haven't had to worry about an Electric bill in years. I used to have to navigate and memorize the electric company shutoff routine so I could pay as late as possible while selectively mitigating late fees and disconnect fees in relation to payday. I can afford to go on vacations now. Ta…

Jordan Peterson (I know, I know...) made an interesting remark in one of his lectures recorded long before he became famous:

"Once you make about $60,000 a year for your family, but let's say for you personally, additional income makes zero has zero impact on your quality of life."

https://youtu.be/NV2yvI4Id9Q?t=63

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