A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter • Hacker News Board

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#441

Post by fortran77 » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 8:16 PM UTC

carbadtraingood wrote: post #162

fortran77 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's getting harder to "run your own website" without the risk of the hosting provider pulling you down if you generate too many complaints and are too much trouble for them.

Is it? Are you planning on running your own Daily Stormer or 8chan? It's not a slippery slope, it's not harder to run your own website. Don't extrapolate from a few extremist cases.

I've seen people that had contrary, skeptical, positions on Sudden Onset Gender Dysphoria get deplatformed by hosting providers.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#442

Post by ansible » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 8:17 PM UTC

pdpi wrote: post #404

LightHugger wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it funny when people get up in arms about "verbal abuse" and somehow don't care about the abuse inherent in the situation. Somehow the perpetuation of the abuse is justified by someone having an imperfect response, dear god. But i suppose you view him as an uppity supplicant who offended the king. Therefore he's a jerk and deserves it, according to you? This is not a view of things that actually solves…

Two wrongs don't make a right. Twitter banning him for "Revenge Porn" over a video of Stray is really not a great look, and the ban should've been immediately reversed on appeal. Him being abusive to the moderation team (who likelier than not have nothing to do with the team that built the AI moderation system) is completely uncalled for, though, and deserves punishment Funnily enough, what I think is the right outco…

Agree on your proposed outcome.

If you have done any sort of social media moderation, you will very quickly develop an immediate reaction to even a trace of abuse or hostility from the users. There are so, so many assholes on the Internet, and you can't fix them. The more effort you put in to one incident, the more of your time these assholes will take up.

The CS rep handling this particular case has dozens of others to handle that same hour. They don't care about you, the user, because you are not a customer, you are the product, and your are easily replaceable. The CS rep's boss also doesn't care about you.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#443

Post by Barrin92 » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 8:18 PM UTC

TameAntelope wrote: post #345

> Here’s the thing: I’m a stinker. Even at my jolliest, if someone figuratively shoulder-checks me, I’m probably going to make so many mountains out of this molehill that I will adjust the topography of the United States significantly. I’m sorry, but this is your real problem, not Twitter banning you. This is called “pride” and is historically recognized as one of the largest “problem creators” as far as emotions go.…

>This is called “pride” and is historically recognized as one of the largest “problem creators” as far as emotions go

yep life sure is easy if you don't have a spine and accomodate to every little act of bullying thrown at you by modern society. It's not the guy who is wrong, it's the world that is wrong, it's good that he understands it.

The author refuses to take the 'clear path' because that isn't an actual solution to the problem of faceless organisations taking people's abilit to speak away, and he probably recognizes as someone who has an audience it's responsible to sa that out loud.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#444

Post by Thorrez » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 8:20 PM UTC

philipswood wrote: post #358

teawrecks wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the clear path?

"you cannot be unsuspended until either they agree your appeal is correct (which it is), you give up your appeal (never), and/or delete the offending tweet." Delete the offending tweet.

The author doesn't mention this in the article, but I think deleting the tweet requires you to acknowledge that it broke the rules:

https://twitter.com/Raddagher/status/1533326201602707458/pho...

Which in this case I think would be a lie. Yes I agree the author should be less prideful and not call Twitter employees "dense" in an appeal. But I don't think the solution is to say the author should lie and say the tweet did break the rules.

Or maybe the rules could be interpreted as "anything that Twitter says breaks the rules does break the rules", meaning it wouldn't be a lie to acknowledge the tweet broke the rules. I haven't analyzed the rules closely.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#445

Post by lapcat » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 8:22 PM UTC

novok wrote: post #440

lapcat wrote: post #129

My Twitter account has been suspended multiple times, the last time for an obvious joke. As with the article author here, Twitter reviewed my appeal and denied it. https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/twitter4.html In the end I caved, giving Twitter my phone number and deleting the tweet, because I need my Twitter account for professional purposes. But now guess what, there was a data breach, and hackers are selling m…

That is why you have separate business phone numbers and addresses that you should be ok with being public and are not actually used for anything serious security wise, so you don't care if it is 'breached', because it's already publicly listed.

I'm a self-employed solo software developer who doesn't even use a phone for business.

Your suggestion is that I buy a separate phone and permanently pay for phone service for that separate phone, just so that I can give Twitter an unimportant phone number in case they suspend my account for an insane reason and refuse my appeal, and then get hacked?

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#446

Post by rglullis » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 8:27 PM UTC

jjulius wrote: post #422

rglullis wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it ok to collectively hate bankers, people working in big tobacco, salesmen in big pharma and many other industries that we know for being damaging to society, but when it comes to Big Tech we suddenly think "it is uncalled for"? Facebook is a deplorable company and its leadership is known to have a completely broken moral compass. But why should we hold only the leadership accountable? It is the developers, t…

I think it's a stretch to say that most people hate every single person working in those industries. We don't hate the tellers, we hate the people running the banks and fucking around with our money. We don't shit on Amazon warehouse employees, we shit on the people making their lives hell. In a similar sense, we don't know what this person's role was as a software engineer . It's one thing to discuss the morality of…

A bank teller is not involved in the implementation of the process and systems that define how banks operate. A software engineer is instrumental to how a company operates.

> It would be great if every single person had the luxury of making employment decisions primarily based on moral code.

We don't need to have "every" person in condition to make such choices, but there are plenty of people that can, and these people are failing us. If you are smart, educated, and have enough work ethic to get a job at Facebook as a software developer, you certainly have what it takes to work anywhere else.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#447

Post by LAC-Tech » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 8:33 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #443

TameAntelope wrote: post #345

> Here’s the thing: I’m a stinker. Even at my jolliest, if someone figuratively shoulder-checks me, I’m probably going to make so many mountains out of this molehill that I will adjust the topography of the United States significantly. I’m sorry, but this is your real problem, not Twitter banning you. This is called “pride” and is historically recognized as one of the largest “problem creators” as far as emotions go.…

>This is called “pride” and is historically recognized as one of the largest “problem creators” as far as emotions go yep life sure is easy if you don't have a spine and accomodate to every little act of bullying thrown at you by modern society. It's not the guy who is wrong, it's the world that is wrong, it's good that he understands it. The author refuses to take the 'clear path' because that isn't an actual soluti…

There's a great middle ground "being spineless" and "getting into constant altercations other nothing".

For me it's sometimes a pretty hard space to inhabit. It's easier to fly off the handle or seize up and say nothing. But it's much more rewarding, and for me at least has gotten easier as I've gotten older.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#448

Post by tablespoon » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 8:36 PM UTC

> It’s a prime example of maybe how we shouldn’t be letting AI run the world maybe, but this was clearly a mistake. So I appealed with my trademark good humor.

> Overnight, I received a response that my appeal had been denied. So a human being, someone who works at Twitter dot com, looked at that video, looked back at the rule it was breaking, looked once again at the video, and went “Yeah, this all checks out.”

The most cost-effective an efficient implementation of an automated appeals process is the UNIX command "yes no". I'm convinced it's also in widespread use.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#449

Post by tablespoon » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 8:38 PM UTC

rpdillon wrote: post #409

pvg wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They sent him an automated private message misidentifying one of his videos. This is obviously lame and annoying but no, he was not accused of a crime he did not commit or have to escape from a military stockade into the Los Angeles underground.

The flagged post was reviewed by two humans. I think you're overemphasizing the 'automated' aspect here, which is just an implementation detail AFAICT. Posting revenge porn is a crime, though I agree Twitter doesn't seem to be calling the cops. If they did, I don't think the evidence would be compelling enough to even bring charges, much less a conviction. But the account stays suspended regardless.

> The flagged post was reviewed by two humans.

How do you know? I wouldn't be surprised in the appeals are automated too, especially the initial ones.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#450

Post by jjulius » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 8:45 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #446

jjulius wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a stretch to say that most people hate every single person working in those industries. We don't hate the tellers, we hate the people running the banks and fucking around with our money. We don't shit on Amazon warehouse employees, we shit on the people making their lives hell. In a similar sense, we don't know what this person's role was as a software engineer . It's one thing to discuss the morality of…

A bank teller is not involved in the implementation of the process and systems that define how banks operate. A software engineer is instrumental to how a company operates. > It would be great if every single person had the luxury of making employment decisions primarily based on moral code. We don't need to have "every" person in condition to make such choices, but there are plenty of people that can , and these peo…

>A software engineer is instrumental to how a company operates.

>If you are smart, educated, and have enough work ethic to get a job at Facebook as a software developer, you certainly have what it takes to work anywhere else.

There is a lot to Facebook, and a lot of various internal and external software that requires SWEs. You lament that people in OP's position "are failing us" because they're not doing more to speak out about FB's bullshit, and that they are better-positioned to get a job elsewhere, yet I have only seen you spout negative rhetoric towards OP and make zero effort to understand more.

You haven't bothered asking them what they worked on at FB, nor have you asked them why they are an ex FB engineer. You have no idea if they contributed to fucked up shit or if it's the fucked up shit that made them leave (isn't that departure what you want, after all?).

Your general sentiment isn't wholly incorrect, it's your determination to kick nuance to the curb and paint everyone with a broad, negative brush that is the issue.