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“No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

bmj.com

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Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#441

Post by randomopining »

mathgladiator wrote: post #247
padolsey wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you articulate how your brain allowed you to escape from that trap? Did K affect you on some low-level inarticulable level? Sincerely curious. Nihilism is a struggle for me!

So, what I can surmise is that I felt a deep connection to the universe. You _feel_ the ramifications of not only being a part of the universe, but also the part of the universe trying to understand it. I'd say I was an atheist before, but now I feel there is something and that something is curious. It's like consciousness is independent of the universe, and didn't create the universe. Instead, it's trying to figure…

100% same feelings. But really it was never as much like this with K as it was much moreso with the shrooms.

I can totally see why K is an immediate relief for people who are immensely depressed. Within 1 hour it basically rips you away from your sense of self, that you were so unnecessarily attached to and that had all the depressive emotions with it.

Shrooms seem like they produce a guttal connective feeling to your surroundings and the natural world around you. Longer lasting imo.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#442

Post by themedes »

throwawayacc2 wrote: post #413

I have a theory which I can’t substantiate, just anecdotes and conversations I had throughout the years. But, I’m convinced a lot of depression/anxiety stems from thinking too much and that in turn is caused by an ever complex word with looser and looser guidelines or norms. I’m not making judgements weather this is necessarily good or bad but rather observing. In the past, even as recent as the 50s but certainly bef…

Interesting concept, I must admit it seems a plausible explanation. I also notice that Anxiety sufferers often overthink things (its much more complex I know).

I guess information size is still exploding in volume and depth, but perhaps in quite a few hundred years this will slow and we catch up through several generations. Maybe then depression or anxiety will be filtered out of subsequent generations as we cope better?

Personally I suspected a lot of it was down to poor nutrition/diet, exercise, night shift work, overall sleeping less and exposure to screens/information. The main factor I think is food e.g. sweeteners, sugars, e-number chemicals, preservatives, and salt all altering our body chemistry.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#443

Post by guggalugalug »

kokey wrote: post #381
openplatypus wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO key quote the study you referenced: > In conclusion, the anti-anxiety properties of SSRIs appear to be largely dependent on expectancy effects on dopamine signaling while SERT blockade is not sufficient for symptom remission. Drug works, if you believe it does :)

I wouldn't be surprised about this when it comes to panic disorder. Just knowing you have some emergency fast acting anti anxiety medication nearby, just in case you need it, can reduce the number of panic attacks. There's probably all kinds of psychological feedback loops when people have anxiety about anxiety and then it escalates because they're anxious about it escalating. I am guessing that medication can help m…

See also, David Foster Wallace's character David Cusk in 'The Pale King'. A wonderful portrayal of how attending to ANTs (Automatic Negative Thoughts) catalyzes this feedback loop.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#444

Post by PragmaticPulp »

Mo3 wrote: post #229
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #18

SSRIs raise extra-synaptic serotonin levels within the first hour of taking them. However, their efficacy against depression takes weeks or even months to manifest. We've known this for decades, and as a result the "chemical imbalance" theory of depression hasn't been a real contender in depression research for a long, long time. The key thing to understand is that serotonin levels don't have to be low for SSRIs to i…

Funnily enough the one I used to take (Escitalopram) apparently has been found to begin permanently altering brain function after only a few hours of first ingestion. I was pretty happy with it. No pun intended

Source? Im not aware of research that shows “permanent” alterations from a single dose, unless someone is really stretching the definition of “permanent”

Pointing to alterations isn’t really helpful without context. An anti-depressant should induce long-term helpful alterations in order to alleviate symptoms.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#445

Post by InfiniteRand »

In a lot of ways the study of mental illness is like the war against cancer, you can expect perpetual expectations of miracle cures being made while slow progress happens in the background and major reverses of assumptions sporadically occur, and therapeutically specific variants make big progress while the majority of the disease is treated by blunt tools which do offer some help but at a considerable cost

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#446

Post by Mo3 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #444
Mo3 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily enough the one I used to take (Escitalopram) apparently has been found to begin permanently altering brain function after only a few hours of first ingestion. I was pretty happy with it. No pun intended

Source? Im not aware of research that shows “permanent” alterations from a single dose, unless someone is really stretching the definition of “permanent” Pointing to alterations isn’t really helpful without context. An anti-depressant should induce long-term helpful alterations in order to alleviate symptoms.

https://www.mpg.de/8426203/escitalopram-brain

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#447

Post by onefuncman »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #397
nth_order wrote: post #335

Yeah, but thats hardly news, we have known that for decades. Otherwise direct serotonin releasers would be the most useful ADs. But these mostly give people nausea and serotonin syndrome. ADs work mostly by being FIASMAs, reducing inflammation and oxidative stress, increasing neurogenesis and neuroplasticity, increasing the activity of other monoaminergic systems, and the serotonergic portion is mostly explained by d…

Anytime I learn about bodily functions I become more and more aware of how shit it's engineering is. Works amazing, sure, but try and fix or debug anything? Good luck.

almost like life is an MVP that could pivot at any time

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#448

Post by pineconewarrior »

sneak wrote: post #392
pineaux wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most effective treatment for depression = psychedelics. They have been used by shamans for eons for this reason. A lot of modern research into this (including 1000s of research studies from the 50s and 60s) confirms it. It was only because Nixon didn't like the fact that kids were not going to war, that the war on drugs was started.

Please do not assert pet theories as established scientific consensus or fact.

Lack of citation does not make it a "pet theory".

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6767816/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01744-z

Go search it before being rude

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#449

Post by Dudeman112 »

_jal wrote: post #411
Workaccount2 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anytime I learn about bodily functions I become more and more aware of how shit it's engineering is. Works amazing, sure, but try and fix or debug anything? Good luck.

Tractors don't know how to repair each other, either.

To be fair, tractors don't go on about how smart they are
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