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The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

community.frame.work

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Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#441

Post by zucker42 »

nrp wrote: post #74
zucker42 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the SN750/SN850 the default SSD, given it has relatively high power consumption[1] and separately is there any reason to believe that building a DIY version with a different SSD wouldn't work? [1] https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wd-black-sn850-m-2-nvme...

We see folks in the community using a range of different SSDs, but SN750/SN770/SN850 are what we have done the most validation on. We see good perf/watt on the WDC drives. It's unclear why Tom's Hardware was seeing poor idle power with power saving modes on.

Thanks for the response.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#442

Post by hajile »

schmorptron wrote: post #357
nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer any questions around this! We've been working on this since update since we launched the product last year, so we're excited to be able to share it today.

Wow, that's quite a price jump from the i5 to the i7 and then subsequently to the 6 core one. Could you talk a bit about the economics of having hotter / higher end chips in a notebook and whether there are other non-obvious cost increases to them? Are the higher end models "subsidizing" the lower end one, or is there motherboard / chipset upgrades that need to happen as a result? Really like the laptop though, and i…

You're paying quite a bit for vPro.

I'd guess that the 2 extra cores don't really make much of a difference day-to-day. If you crank up all the cores, both chips will throttle in a laptop of that size. If you are only running a couple single-threaded applications, the extra 100MHz turbo hardly makes a difference (around 2-3%).

On the flip side, the places that need/want vPro are going to be very enterprisey and don't mind spending the extra money.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#443

Post by google234123 »

sascha_sl wrote: post #339
trinsic2 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I havent looked at the presentation yet, but are you saying the PSP, like intels ME could be doing nefarious things since its proprietary and closed? Do you have a link to information on the network capturing thing? I mean is that really a thing? I have heard of these things before but I am not quite sure what the possibilities are. Do you have a link that can summarize what this actual means in terms of security con…

CVE-2017-5689

How do you know there isn't an undiscovered CVE for AMD? There's probably maybe 10x more security research focused on Intel

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#444

Post by codezero »

I got my framework laptop a little over a week ago and I'm pretty happy with it, but seeing such a huge performance boost is frustrating a little, that said, I bought it to support/encourage the company, so I guess it's working :P

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#445

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

doyougnu wrote: post #340

I recently bought a framework laptop for a daily driver when I'm not on my desktop. For context I was running NixOS on an old 2014 macbook air, and I work on the glasgow haskell compiler in my day job so I do a lot of CPU heavy tasks. I've got to say, as long as these things are being produced I'll never go back. They are just too good and I cannot recommend them highly enough. One of the things that didn't occur to…

This is interesting: over the last several months, a friend has been running NixOS on a Framework and has been told by Framework employees that they can’t help him with Linux kernel issues because he’s using an unsupported OS and he’s also had lots of complaints about battery life and power management.

I love the idea of the Framework, but it seems to suffer from all the issues that made me switch to MacBooks in the first place.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#446

Post by vladvasiliu »

guardiangod wrote: post #200
cooperadymas wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would challenge you to find a 2022 Dell or HP with a trackpoint.

https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-elitebook-840-g8-notebo... Just got a new one from work. It's literally in front of me right now. Granted the laptop's build quality is questionable (the right hinge's case bulges higher than the left) and the trackpoint has a tendency to get stuck to one direction.

Oh man, I have an 845 g8 (840 with amd). I hate this laptop with a passion. It could've been such a great tool, but it's a steaming PoS because HP wanted to make a quick buck.

I don't have your hinge issue. But, as you open the display, the hinge gets below the laptop's feet. So now it slides around on the table. Which is so stupid, because this laptop doesn't have 4 feet, but 2 large ones, than run the width of the laptop. Which is fantastic if you want to use it on the corner of a table since it won't wobble!

Then there's the screen. I swear someone at HP wanted to see how shitty a screen they could get away with in a 2000 euro laptop (which is just a middle of the road config, mind you). On basic models, you have a 6 bit screen. On higher-end ones, they have this security screen thingy that massacres the viewing angles even when it's off. If you move your head around the tiniest bit (say while listening to music) the colors will perceptibly change. The colors are atrocious. And they don't even hide it! The specs say 72% NTSC (not sRGB, which is much wider).

Then you have your usual suspects with cheap laptops: the cooler is an absolute joke, the fan developed a horrible noise in a few months. There's coil whine that drives you up a wall when connecting a USB-C monitor + power.

On the plus side, the analog headphone out is surprisingly good. I don't hear any background noise, there's no whine when moving the mouse, and the sound is similar to my Retina MBP on relatively high-end headphones.

It also works very well on Linux, I'd say it's even better than Windows: I've installed a fresh copy of Windows 11 and I can't get the camera to work. It works perfectly on Linux.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#447

Post by hojjat12000 »

xchaotic wrote: post #406

I had a look and it looks like everything is upgraded- the chassis, the motherboard etc. So if you wanted to take advantage of all of the improvements you’d need to buy them all. At which point it might be less materially wasteful to but another, less recyclable laptop that uses fewer parts ?

You don't "NEED" to upgrade your chassis. Even if you do, it's just one piece out of the 3 pieces for your chassis. You'd be upgrading your motherboard and CPU. You can reuse your wifi, storage, ram, your expansion cards, your display, your speakers, your keyboard, your touchpad, your battery, powersupply, cables...

That being said, you don't need to upgrade from 11th gen to 12th gen. Maybe in a few years when 11th gen isn't cutting it for you anymore you can upgrade to 15th gen.

It's great that they provide a path for upgrading, but the more important thing here is having more recent hardware for someone who wants to buy a framework in 2022.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#448

Post by fyrn- »

cyber_kinetist wrote: post #144
intsunny wrote: post #128

I'd really wish for an AMD motherboard. The new AMD chips with the RDNA2 is a Linux user's dream. The open source support is incredible.

I thought that the latest Alder Lake CPUs pretty much catched up with AMD in terms of general performance nowadays. And Intel's iGPU support was rock solid even before AMD.

Th IGPU is substantially better in the new RDNA2 chips, also power draw.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#449

Post by sryie »

xur17 wrote: post #324
sryie wrote: post #136

I recently received my first framework laptop after being a loyal Thinkpad user for years. I am loving it so far. I run Ubuntu 22.04 daily and have not had any issues with battery life or the lid (but I do typically leave it plugged in during lunch and overnight). The expansion cards are brilliant and the keyboard is comparable to my old t-series. The aspect ratio is great for coding and I'm happy to see upgradeabili…

> and the keyboard is comparable to my old t-series. Really happy to hear this bit since it's my main concern when buying a new laptop. My 2 other questions - how long does the battery last, and how is overall build quality?

I am happy with the build quality so far. It feels sturdy and lightweight. The laptop is noticeably lighter and thinner than my old ThinkPad. With the lid open it is about the same height as my 14 inch but there is more vertical screen real estate because there is less black around the display area. I have read about issues with the hinges but I think this has been fixed now. I have not had hinge issues. I opened up the laptop to take a look inside when I first got it and everything came apart and went back together nicely (my only surprise was one screw does not come out all the way by design which I had to Google about). The expansion slots are maybe a little too sturdy and require a good amount of force to remove.

For battery life I think an average user can expect 5 to 6 hours. I use mine for about 5 hours with Firefox (around 10-20 tabs) and a few terminal processes and will still have about 20% remaining.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#450

Post by sobjornstad »

jjeaff wrote: post #429
the_pwner224 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same, but the Logitech MX Master is basically the current version of this. It has two scrollwheels, one for vertical and one for horizontal. They have some interesting tech in them. When moved slowly they click with detents, like normal scrollwheels. But when you move the wheels more quickly they "unlock" to spin freely, you can scroll at a pretty high speed and with good accuracy.

Do the scroll wheels have "weight" to them? In other words, can you give it a good spin and let it keep spinning on its own momentum?

I just took a stopwatch to mine and it spun for 10 seconds. In real life you would give it another whirl after a couple of seconds because it starts to slow down, but the short answer is clearly yes.
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