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Apple M1 Ultra

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Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#441

Post by quickthrower2 »

Geee wrote: post #307

This is insane. They claim that its GPU performance tops the RTX 3090, while using 200W less power. I happen to have this GPU on my PC and not only it costs over $3000, but its also very power-hungry and loud. Currently, you need this kind of GPU performance for high resolution VR gaming at 90 fps, but its just barely enough. This means that the GPU will run very loudly and heat up the room, and running games like HL…

I wonder how it compares for crypto mining, and if that group would be buying these up

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#442

Post by flipgimble »

miohtama wrote: post #407
outworlder wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad that historically Apple has not given any attention to Mac gaming.

Apple has now too much money and is running out of core business areas. Expect more investing in non-Apple areas like gaming, cars, etc. Though every video game company on the planet hates them because of App Store terms.

"every video game company" = Epic Games, and mostly because they don't like to pay overhead for their Fortnite loot boxes that most parents wish they could have some control over. I don't have allegiance to either company mostly because they don't care about me, just my money.

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#443

Post by Retric »

alasdair_ wrote: post #411
polyrand wrote: post #258

I think the GPU claims are interesting. According to the graph's footer, the M1 Ultra was compared to an RTX 3090. If the performance/wattage claims are correct, I'm wondering if the Mac Studio could become an "affordable" personal machine learning workstation (which also won't make the electricity bill skyrocket). If Pytorch becomes stable and easy to use on Apple Silicon [0][1], it could be an appealing choice. [0]…

Note the label on the y-axis. "relative performance" from "0-200" seems like marketing bullshit to me. "M1 Ultra has a 64-core GPU, delivering faster performance than the highest-end PC GPU available, while using 200 fewer watts of power." Note that they say "faster performance" not "more performance". What does "faster" mean? Who knows!

I have heard this argument before, if it’s identical workloads you get faster output but the same total work. Thus “faster performance” seems correct for fixed workloads and “more performance” is correct on games or benchmarks where you get more FPS.

I still think “faster performance” sounds sound odd, but I understand their point.

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#444

Post by MaxLeiter »

jedberg wrote: post #394

Given how low the power consumption is for the power you get, I wonder if we'll see a new push for Mac servers. In an age where reducing power consumption in the datacenter is an advantage, it seems like it would make a lot of sense.

I don’t think this will be the case until they’re more right to repair friendly

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#445

Post by kccqzy »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #92
kasperni wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder if they'll just do 4x M1 Max for that. Unlikely, M1 Ultra is the last chip in the M1 family according to Apple [1]. "M1 Ultra completes the M1 family as the world’s most powerful and capable chip for a personal computer.”" [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/03/apple-unveils-m1-ultr...

What is M2 really going to be difference wise?

I think M2 is going to improve on single thread performance.

Judging from the geekbench scores[0], M1, M1 Pro, and M1 Max perform identically in single threaded tasks. And the newly leaked Mac Studio benchmark[1] shows essentially identical single thread performance.

[0]: https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks [1]: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/13330272

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#446

Post by michaelmrose »

Geee wrote: post #307

This is insane. They claim that its GPU performance tops the RTX 3090, while using 200W less power. I happen to have this GPU on my PC and not only it costs over $3000, but its also very power-hungry and loud. Currently, you need this kind of GPU performance for high resolution VR gaming at 90 fps, but its just barely enough. This means that the GPU will run very loudly and heat up the room, and running games like HL…

Why would you believe that it tops the RTX 3090? It's just 2 of their prior chips in the same package? This is purely marketing nonsense with nothing to back it up.

At least in the US You can get a 3090 for 2200 even with markup and an almost as good 3080 for $1150. If you wait until its in stock at a big box store you can get one for less even. A machine could be built with a 3080 for $2000.

Meanwhile a system based on on the 64 core GPU will run you $5000 and as such is affordable to nearly nobody thus few will get a chance to see it drastically under perform in the gaming arena on any of the games that don't support mac on arm.

With an absolutely invisible market share in the gaming desktop there will never be any incentive for anyone to change this insofar as direct support leaving you reliant on translation from x86 and from windows executables paying doubly in terms of compatibility and performance from an already very expensive and lackluster starting point.

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#447

Post by eyegor »

Geee wrote: post #307

This is insane. They claim that its GPU performance tops the RTX 3090, while using 200W less power. I happen to have this GPU on my PC and not only it costs over $3000, but its also very power-hungry and loud. Currently, you need this kind of GPU performance for high resolution VR gaming at 90 fps, but its just barely enough. This means that the GPU will run very loudly and heat up the room, and running games like HL…

Ehh, I wouldn't put too much stock in graphs of "relative performance" on a 0-200 scale like these. Marketing can cook up whatever they like when they want to make a product look good. Wait for actual benchmarks before trying to judge the product. Their base claim is >2x the m1 max, which is still nowhere close to the performance of a 3090.

Apple's footnotes don't even pretend to explain what these charts are.

> Performance was measured using select industry‑standard benchmarks.

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#449

Post by IndrekR »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #365
whoisburbansky wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cursory look gives you a ~$3500 price tag for a gaming PC with a 3090 [1], vs. at least $4k for a Mac Studio with an M1 Ultra. Roughly the same ballpark, but I wouldn't call the M1 Ultra more affordable given those numbers. 1. https://techguided.com/best-rtx-3090-gaming-pc/#:~:text=With... .

Hahaha good luck getting your hands on a 30xx series card though. Here in Australia, 3090’s go for close to 3k on their own.

I can right now (ok, in the morning actually) walk into a computer store across the road here and buy 3090 off the shelf for 2299..2499€ (different makes and models). Those are in stock and physically on the shelf. Same for lesser cards of same series or AMD RX6000.

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#450

Post by zdw »

joshspankit wrote: post #419
kllrnohj wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GPU claims on the M1 Pro & Max were, let's say, cherry picked to put it nicely. The M1 Ultra claims already look suspicious since the GPU graph tops out at ~120W & the CPU graph tops out at ~60W yet the M1 Studio is rated for 370W continuous power draw. Since you mention ML specifically, looking at some benchmarks out there (like https://tlkh.dev/benchmarking-the-apple-m1-max#heading-gpu & https://wandb.ai/tcapel…

Watching the keynote I was almost thinking that Nvidia missed the boat when they chose not to sign whatever they had to to make OSX drivers. Thank you for recalibrating me to actual reality and not Apple Reality (tm)

nVidia missed the boat in releasing a bunch of "replace the whole laptop logic board" chips that died in the 2008-2012 timeframe and annoyed a whole host of OEMs:

https://www.techpowerup.com/64683/nvidia-admits-to-selling-f...

Apple specifically: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203254

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