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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#441

Post by soupbowl »

fishidns wrote: post #247
chrisdhoover wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polling whether rights should be suspended is dangerous. I know nothing of Canadian law, but in the US if 2/3 polled said a peaceful protest should be broken up by the military. The response should condemnation and reassertion of our unalienable rights.

Why do you say it's peaceful? The only reason for the act is because of the illegal blockades which is affecting essential services, goods and livelihood of local business and citizens. A peaceful protest cannot hold people hostage by blocking their access to essential services and goods, and trapping them in. If the protest stopped doing that, then it's fine to continue as long as it wants. You can't have a very sma…

I've watched 40 hours of multiple live streams at night and in the morning, it is peaceful. I have gone to events myself and it was peaceful. A lot of families brought kids there, doubt you'd see so many children if it was not peaceful.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#442

Post by gumby »

makomk wrote: post #24

Headline on the front page of BBC News right now: "Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters' bank accounts" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60383385 This feels downright dystopian, especially if the move away from cash and towards centrally-controlled electronic payment systems is anywhere near as widespread in Canada as elsewhere.

Due to layout, there was a line break for me at the end of “Trudeau vows to freeze anti-mandate protesters” which, given that it’s Canada in the winter, seemed eminently plausible, if a little bit cruel.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#443

Post by jpgvm »

makeworld wrote: post #395
jpgvm wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how did he win?

His party had the largest percentage as compared to other parties.

So the people voted for his parties policies? Sort of sounds like he has mandate to do what his party thinks is correct then.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#444

Post by ed25519FUUU »

akerl_ wrote: post #137
edmcnulty101 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locking bank accounts at all WITHOUT A TRIAL, seems dystopian. That's a lot of power for the state to have to be able to reach into some ones bank accounts with no due process. Edit: changed AT ALL to without a trial because on second thought resized it's possible that there are some legit uses for freezing bank accounts.

Seizing funds from criminals to restrict their ability to perpetrate and profit from crime is a tool used by law enforcement in essentially every country, and has been happening for a long time. There’s plenty of areas of this that are misused (see things like civil asset forfeiture), but the overarching strategy of freezing bank accounts isn’t novel or dystopian. Edit: it’s a bit sneaky to change “AT ALL” to “WITHOU…

How many protesters have had their bank accounts frozen in the past for disobedience?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#445

Post by adra »

oceanplexian wrote: post #347
fishidns wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to make sure everyone has the correct piece of data to think about this. The mandate says that non-Canadian truckers need to be vaccinated to enter the country. The mandate says that Canadian truckers, if they are not vaccinated, are not going to be exempt from the normal border entry measures, which is that they'd need to quarantine on entry unless they are vaccinated. The US has a similar mandate for Cana…

>That said, this doesn't really matter because to enter the other country they'll have to be vaccinated anyways. Obviously an unvaccinated trucker from Canada cannot enter the US and return until both the Canadian and US restrictions are lifted. It doesn’t matter in which order they are lifted, but both need to be. Since they are Canadian citizens obviously they are protesting the Canadian component of the travel res…

The difference is in jurisdictional authority? Inner-provincial policy is mandated by the Ontario government and does not enter into federal politics.

As to scientific or not science, the science is in. Vaccines reduce the spread and severity of COVID and governments generally attempt to mitigate the risk of dangerous things happening to their people needlessly. Why are mandates constantly changing? Look to the knowledge available to the decision makers when they set policy. Most governments try to thread the needle between positive economic and health outcomes, but to be sure, nobody know the right answer. All decisions have consequences.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#446

Post by soupbowl »

pkd wrote: post #357
ipaddr wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who have their lives taken away have little left to live for. The increases the violence and grows a movement you want to stop. If Trudeau opened debate weeks ago I wonder where we would be today.

You wish that Trudeau opened debate with people who demanded that his government be deposed and replaced by the protest organisers?

The organizers never suggested that.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#447

Post by partiallypro »

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #211
chrisdhoover wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polling whether rights should be suspended is dangerous. I know nothing of Canadian law, but in the US if 2/3 polled said a peaceful protest should be broken up by the military. The response should condemnation and reassertion of our unalienable rights.

This is not a peaceful protest. There have been multiple documented assaults on the street and of people in the service industry. There were several attempts to burn down residential buildings full of people. The protestors have violated injunctions against making noises at volumes that are harmful to people's hearing, and depriving people of sleep.

I'd like to see sources on this. The only thing I've seen is some truckers/protestors walking into a restaraunt unmasked and demanding to be served.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#448

Post by ed25519FUUU »

markdown wrote: post #148
edmcnulty101 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locking bank accounts at all WITHOUT A TRIAL, seems dystopian. That's a lot of power for the state to have to be able to reach into some ones bank accounts with no due process. Edit: changed AT ALL to without a trial because on second thought resized it's possible that there are some legit uses for freezing bank accounts.

Wait till you hear about civil forfeiture in the United States.

So a consistent view is to be anti-civil forfeiture and anti-freezing bank accounts. I think that’s largely the sentiment expressed here.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#449

Post by jancsika »

ff317 wrote: post #230
colechristensen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like , it is authoritarian response to something which should be protected. Using government power intended for things like war to suppress a protest is ridiculous, if this is what being "liberal" is about, I'm out. I hope the response is a protest escalation. Not my country, not my protest, but I know who I'm rooting for. Contrast this to what was happening in Minneapolis a couple of summers ago... p…

Serious question though, which applies to both the Canadian truckers case and the Minneapolis example above - does a right to protest an issue also include a right to inflict economic harm (on broader society, in poorly-targeted fashion) in order to raise awareness? Is the amount of economic harm (say, %GDP of the town, region, or country) or how broadly it's targeted ("random retail stores"? "Anything that relies on…

> Serious question though, which applies to both the Canadian truckers case and the Minneapolis example above - does a right to protest an issue also include a right to inflict economic harm (on broader society, in poorly-targeted fashion) in order to raise awareness?

Almost unexceptionally yes?

Arab Spring in Egypt, civil rights lunch counter sit-ins, the protests in East Germany in 89...

I'm actually having a hard time thinking of historic protests which didn't inflict economic harm.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#450

Post by dibujante »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #150
WesternWind wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocking bridges with trucks to protest public health members seems dystopian.

Quoted post unavailable.

I recall the police responding to the protests in Portland and working hard to shut them down as a result. The Ottawa police have declined to take action.
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