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Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

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Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#441

Post by schwartzworld »

firstplacelast wrote: post #174
ryandvm wrote: post #62

Sure, you hate your boring, safe, lucrative job in software development until you become a plumber and find yourself on your hands and knees beside a disassembled toilet for the 87th time. Splattered in fetid wastewater, pulling stuck condoms out of the floor while the idiot renter stands above you dragging on his Juul, and you realize, maybe I didn't have it so bad after all. The "grass is always greener" is probabl…

So I get it, but also people are way overhyping software development in this thread (which is expected on a tech website). The only thing going for it is an insane salary and lots of us don’t have those. I’ve worked in biotech/healthcare and have never had anything close to a FAANG salary even in a HCOL area. I burned out and am just now taking a month off to just exist. I have had the same thoughts about going blue-…

> The only thing going for it is an insane salary and lots of us don’t have those.

This is a really naive statement. Software development is so easy and fun compared to most of the shit work out there. Everytime I see someone whining about burnout, I think about all the busboys and dishwashers I used to work with who probably also get burned out working long hard physical shifts for abusive bosses, in order to make in a week what many devs do in a couple of days.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#442

Post by tonyedgecombe »

hodgesrm wrote: post #76
civilized wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Hey! What's wrong with BMWs? We have two of them. Both diesels. The gas mileage is slightly below amazing. (Though my lawyer says you should always buy them used, never new. He's very good on life advice in general.)

https://www.joe.co.uk/news/bmw-drivers-voted-the-worst-drive...

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#443

Post by tonyedgecombe »

Simon_O_Rourke wrote: post #98
civilized wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It had to be said because it's largely correct! https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/car-news/psychopaths-d...

I know it's anecdotal but I found that I turned into an arsehole when I owned a german car.

The cars are generally quiet and comfortable, they insulate you from the outside world. The dealership will treat you better than the typical garage because they can afford to. Your work colleagues will fawn over it even though they think you are a bit of a knob. You will get more attention from the opposite sex because they think you have more money. I even read that estate agents find selling houses with a german car in the drive easier.

From that it's easy to slip into thinking you are a very important person and that the plebs should just get out of your way.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#444

Post by jaclaz »

ElKrist wrote: post #165
bartread wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I work in tech and, outside of work, I'm refurbishing my house. I'm enjoying the refurbishment but would I do a trade as a full time job? Hell no. Crawling around in my loft sistering joists is satisfying work but also, if it were to become the kind of thing I did over a long period of time, would 100% wreck my knees. And that's just one downside. There are plenty more: e.g., all the ancillary guff you have…

I share your view about making estimates and quotes. I get contractors to my house to help me renovate. It's just standard practice to get multiple tradesmen (>=3) to make a quote for the same job. I do that whenever the job is above $5000. I assume they must have a lot of other clients who do the same for lower thresholds too. I don't know the margins in each trade but I guess at least half of the quote is costs? Fo…

>I don't know the margins in each trade but I guess at least half of the quote is costs?

Costs are likely more 80-85% in building/construction, margins are thin.

Electricians/plumbers may have something more, but not much.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#445

Post by tonyedgecombe »

mrwnmonm wrote: post #97
lolinder wrote: post #23

This comment and its top reply are dead on: https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/sm54ri/a... No job is going to get you away from unreasonable people with unreasonable expectations, and most trades introduce a bunch of other unpleasant things that you'd have to deal with. It's all tradeoffs. Someone may legitimately prefer the stresses of a trade to the stresses of working in software, and that's great…

What about teaching? Or becoming a Youtuber?

I did a maths degree with the Open University. Most of the students are adults and sometimes it seemed half were programmers wanting to become teachers and the other half were teachers wanting to become programmers.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#446

Post by hackerfromthefu »

hinkley wrote: post #276
nkozyra wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something so insidiously, backhandedly condescending about tech workers pining for the simplicity of an honest day's job that drives me nuts. Yes, there are almost always jobs with less strenuous requirements on time, fewer requirements and late nights. But the average tech worker has a pretty good gig. And if they don't they can go down the street in 2022 and get one. Trades scratch a similar itch to develop…

Through attrition and universities pumping out CS degrees as fast as they can since the early 90's, at any given point almost half of us have less than 5 years of experience. When half the people don't know any better, it's really hard to use democracy to get anything 'good' done. Either this hasn't changed much over that interval or the people who are fond of pointing this out aren't tracking statistics. Whether it'…

>> .. at any given point almost half of us have less than 5 years of experience. When half the people don't know any better, it's really hard to use democracy to get anything 'good' done.

This is really a problem, there's inherent value in egalitarianism or democracy, but perhaps due to a lack of deeply technical managers it often plays as you say hard to get anything good done due to bike-shedding and not being led by experience.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#447

Post by letitbeirie »

bartread wrote: post #69
lolinder wrote: post #23

This comment and its top reply are dead on: https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/sm54ri/a... No job is going to get you away from unreasonable people with unreasonable expectations, and most trades introduce a bunch of other unpleasant things that you'd have to deal with. It's all tradeoffs. Someone may legitimately prefer the stresses of a trade to the stresses of working in software, and that's great…

I agree. I work in tech and, outside of work, I'm refurbishing my house. I'm enjoying the refurbishment but would I do a trade as a full time job? Hell no. Crawling around in my loft sistering joists is satisfying work but also, if it were to become the kind of thing I did over a long period of time, would 100% wreck my knees. And that's just one downside. There are plenty more: e.g., all the ancillary guff you have…

Most things "simple living" - working with your hands, living off the land, camping, etc. - are only enjoyable if they're optional.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#448

Post by nkozyra »

digitaltrees wrote: post #434
nkozyra wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s only condescending, because you’re assuming a social hierarchy where software development is more prestigious or desirable than one of the trades and that physical labor is harder than non-physical labor. I'm very confused by this because I'm arguing the exact opposite: that people in tech romanticize these "simple" trades of the people. > Would you call out a plumber for being condescending in wishing for the…

Your overly focused on the perception that any job is simple. What’s really going on is people see the stress and difficulty of their current job and underestimate other jobs. It’s not condescending, it’s just self focused and naive. I am pointing this out because by understanding why people actually complain it will deepen empathy for the complaining person and also avoid creating a pseudo classist framing of the si…

> I am pointing this out because by understanding why people actually complain it will deepen empathy for the complaining person and also avoid creating a pseudo classist framing of the situation which is actually not only inaccurate but harmful for understanding the people involved.

You misinterpreted my original point and when I attempted to clarify you're now telling me what I'm "too focused on," as if I don't understand that all people have stress.

So I'm finding this reply a bit ironic. Maybe it's supposed to be and I'm just not picking up on the bit.

You ascribed some malice to my original post that wasn't there and are now doubling down. Why?

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#449

Post by southerntofu »

nkozyra wrote: post #166
jedberg wrote: post #64

This last summer/fall really put things in perspective for me. We did a major outdoor renovation at our house, which involved landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters. Every day these guys would show up at 8am and long sleeves and jeans and hard hats, work super hard, pee in a port-a-potty, and be exhausted by the end of the day. They worked out in the 100 degree heat as well as the rain as the job got nea…

There's something so insidiously, backhandedly condescending about tech workers pining for the simplicity of an honest day's job that drives me nuts. Yes, there are almost always jobs with less strenuous requirements on time, fewer requirements and late nights. But the average tech worker has a pretty good gig. And if they don't they can go down the street in 2022 and get one. Trades scratch a similar itch to develop…

As someone who does/did tech jobs and manual jobs, i think it all depends. I know some people in tech who get paid insane amounts of money to sit at a desk and pretend to do something, and some of these people would not last an hour in a manual job. But i also know some developers/artists in tech industry who work 60h weeks to be paid under 2K€/mo and are on the verge of burnout, and these people would probably be very happy to find any better job, whether in tech industry or not.

I think your experience of tech workers is not representative of the tech industry in general: for every high-paid IT person, there's 2 or 3 (maybe 50?) who're getting paid peanuts and have very indecent working conditions, and i personally find it somewhat condescending to suggest it's just an isolated incident and it's so easy to just walk down the street to find better work conditions.

In fact, that very sentence was pronounced by our slaver-in-chief Emmanuel Macron and was widely derided as condescending. It's hard for people to find a job, especially if you don't have high connections. It's even harder to find a decent job: to find a quasi-slavery posting you can just walk down to any luxurious restaurant/hotel but to find lawful/respectful working conditions, i still don't know of a magic formula.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#450

Post by lokalfarm »

1123581321 wrote: post #438
lokalfarm wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your idea of physical abuse is carpal tunnel from using a mouse + keyboard, don't go into the trades. Seriously. Go to Home Depot, buy a stick of 1" copper pipe, a Ridgid (wheel) pipe cutter, and some sandpaper. Now go to your backyard, in the cold, kneel on some bricks/concrete, and spend 30 minutes cutting off little portions of the copper stick, and then clean the ends with sandpaper. For bonus points, consider…

It's hard to compare aches before acclimation to physical work with chronic conditions that develop over years of long, daily sedentary periods. The keyboard being more comfortable on day one isn't the point, right?

Carpal tunnel isn't about being sedentary, is it? It's about repetitive movements (from people I know who suffer from it, vibrations also exacerbate their conditions, which is why I brought up power tools) - just like the common plumbing activities that I mentioned. This isn't about aches. If your body can't handle sitting at a computer, then you are out of your mind thinking that working a trade will somehow 'be better.' Buy a standing desk, ergonomic keyboard + mouse, and go for some walks.
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