Live data from Hacker News

China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

dailybusinessgroup.co.uk

441–450 of 699 posts

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#441
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine that works in the industry as a business developer for Chinese blockchain firms since 2017 said the exact same thing! My market perspective: "Everything is priced in." Apparently, not in the crypto markets. Old news is new news, apparently. Policy perspective: The more DeFi becomes a thing, the less a policy like this will matter. It will still matter a lot, but it will pack less of a punch due to de…

>If crypto still feels as speculative (in terms of trading crypto) 10 years later, then I feel the experiment to find a good use-case has ran for long enough. Maybe I'm taking this to a place you didn't intend, or maybe this is an ignorant question but. . . . What is the US market now, compared to 10 years ago. My experience is that 10 years ago Bitcoin was used to either buy drugs, or as a bet made by college kids t…

I'd agree, but I'm willing to wait and see for 10 more years. For one, I do see some developments nowadays that are making me excited (not money related). Also, tackling blockchain problems is hard.

And in all fairness, the speed at which you can send Ripple and similar cryptocurrencies is actually quite cool. It's a shame that it's mostly in its own little bubble still.

> Bitcoin was used to either buy drugs

In all fairness, I'm not necessarily against it. I'm not pro, but I do believe that many drug laws in most countries are against the idea of freedom. And I find it a comforting yet troubling thought (for different reasons) that cryptocurrencies fight against that (troubling: a 13 year old buying/using some very strong drugs, comforting: a 31 year old doing it for experimentation -- freedom is important).

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#442
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto eats the world now if you like it or not. The climate will be fine, because newer systems don’t burn excessive energy. But the CCP fighting the tide is great news, since communist regimes usually fall by trying to clamp down on things beyond their control.

The climate is unlikely to be fine, regardless of whether or not crypto mining is banned. At this point we're just affecting just how bad it's going to get.

I agree I chose the words poorly: my point is the long term risk to the climate posed by crypto seems marginal given the tech trends and incentives.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#444
post #419

Wow, imagine living in a country where the legal financial assets you own can be turned criminal where accessing them is punished with hard labor. Sounds like a dystopian nightmare.

But they said bitcoin was out of reach of governments, how is it possible a government is now banning it?

[deleted]

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#445

Excellent news for the climate.

The idea that crypto mining is bad for the climate is short-sighted. It is based on the wrong assumption of a static universe. But this world is not static. Let's say for example, all goverments would become more strict in taxing energy consumption. (Presumably to help save the climate.) Now at some point there is a market incentive to develop mining techniques that optimize for less energy consumption above all else…

> Now at some point there is a market incentive to develop mining techniques that optimize for less energy consumption above all else.

The question is whether that will happen before serious consequences of climate change. While I agree that market (as well as government) incentive is likely to optimize these systems for less energy, and cleaner energy in general, humans are lazy all the way through the bell-curve. Because we developed for millions of years in a hostile world with scarce nutrition, we are inclined towards conserving nutrition and calories, thus we are still inclined mentally to be reactive more than proactive.

What I'm saying is that you might very well be right, but I am pessimistic in that I think we may react too late. Our efforts to change our ways have been, for all intents and purposes, a joke for the last 40 years.

> It is based on the wrong assumption of a static universe.

I am glad you bring up this point, although there's a flaw in it.

What I think you are saying is that the universe is full of change that the myopic human brain struggles to comprehend in its short lifetime. This is something I frequently have difficulty communicating to people.

For instance, one of my long time interests is in native plants and foraging. The truth about "native plants" is that little of it approaches a definition that can be considered truly "native". What's native to a person depends on their perspective. Native since when? Since humans showed up? Since before European settlers? Since the Pleistocene? What people think of as native plants are often as recent to an area as the 1400's or were carried by birds and critters from other parts of the world at some point in prehistory.

To your point, the world has always been changing long before we showed up, and attempting to keep it in suspended animation may be a losing game.

But many in the native plant community (yes, there are people simply interested in native flora) won't have that perspective, let alone consider it intellectually. I left those communities because my view that not every non-native plant is "invasive" or "noxious" was considered heresy. Because the world has always been in flux, I generally don't believe that living things introduced in our lifetime must be eradicated to maintain the image of the world we are familiar with. There are of course exceptions, but to many zealots every plant they don't like must be an exception. It doesn't even matter if an introduced plant doesn't pose a threat to surrounding plants and animals. They want it gone because reasons.

In some ways, climate change can be viewed in the same way. While I absolutely think that climate change caused by humanity is an alarming concern, I have trouble discussing the issue with people because they have the "static universe" world view. In their minds, our current Earth is the one that was always meant to exist, which is pretty anthropocentric. They believe that, at least until recently, we had just the right amount of glaciers, just the right amount of snow in the winter, and just the right amount of heat in the summer to melt the snow caps for drinking water and give us a nice tan; it's just as God intended!

The tricky thing about climate change is that a certain amount of it was destined to happen whether we were blowing CO2 into the atmosphere or not. This fact (and it is a fact) doesn't change my view that we should be concerned about the warming of the glove, but it's often ignored by people. They read facts about melting glaciers and simply conclude, based on their limited earthly experience, that glaciers shouldn't melt and that glaciers melting are necessarily a sign of doom. Ironically, some of them are still opposed to nuclear energy or seriously investing in solar technology, but that's neither here nor there.

On the other hand, some use the fluctuating-universe theory to rationalize their lack of concern. To them, all change is what God intended, figuratively speaking. It's the mirror image of the supposed counterargument.

There are solutions that should satisfy both sides of the coin. Will they ever agree to use those solutions proactively? It seems we are at a political impasse where one's position on these issues primarily depends on where their personality and temperament naturally drifts them towards rather by highly conscious choice. (arguments around free-will notwithstanding)

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#446

Wow, imagine living in a country where the legal financial assets you own can be turned criminal where accessing them is punished with hard labor. Sounds like a dystopian nightmare.

We already have this in America, Civil Asset Forfeiture is already out of control.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#447

Excellent news for the climate.

And what about non energy intensive crypto currencies that rely on PoS or PoH?

Depends on what you mean by "PoS".

If you mean "proof of stake" - I've never heard anyone describe any environmental issues with them, so I assume that they either don't exist or are far smaller in impact than PoW.

If you mean "proof of storage/space" - it seems like that tends to produce very high write volumes, which in turn burns SSDs out very quickly[1] - and you can argue that that's bad for the environment. How bad, and whether it's worse than the energy consumption of PoW, I'm not sure. From one perspective, it's worse, because you could theoretically power PoW mining using exclusively green energy, but you can't pull the raw materials for SSDs out of thin air.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27001848

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#448
post #419

Wow, imagine living in a country where the legal financial assets you own can be turned criminal where accessing them is punished with hard labor. Sounds like a dystopian nightmare.

But they said bitcoin was out of reach of governments, how is it possible a government is now banning it?

The bitcoin might be out of reach of governments, but the people definitely aren't.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#449
post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entries in a company’s database do not a cryptocurrency make. Maybe if they used an authenticated append-only list to store the state or state changes, and published a summary of the head periodically in a way such that users could at least validate that the state changes were valid, or at least not violate certain rules, that might count. If cryptography isn’t used in order to make something verifiable, it isn’t rea…

A blockchain is a database of blocks which are cryptographically hashed such that manipulating any previous entries would invalidate all future ones referencing it. That is pretty much it. This can be constructed on a single machine in someone's basement if one so desires. In fact, the entire point of Bitcoin is that the entire blockchain can be validated by any node which anyone can start with something as trivial a…

Yes, I think that fits under (or is perhaps synonymous with?) the “authenticated append only list” that I said.

Re: China declares cryptocurrency deals ‘illegal’

#450

Wow, imagine living in a country where the legal financial assets you own can be turned criminal where accessing them is punished with hard labor. Sounds like a dystopian nightmare.

Eh.. I don't want to diminish the impact of Chinese action, but US not so long ago banned owning gold ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Reserve_Act ) by individuals. It is only recently that this got relaxed. Government can and do whatever the populace will bear.

Lets not bear this then. Central Bank Digital Currency is just around the corner if crypto is banned. CBDC is an authoritarian's wet dream.

Speak against the government--you're no longer allowed to transact in society.

Retroactive tax...boom, negative balance.

Post reply on HN