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Under the skin of OnlyFans

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Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#441

Post by jasonlotito »

emptysongglass wrote: post #336
Xylakant wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry for your wife. However, I think it’s dangerous to shape the conversation about sex work solely around such cases. A person from my old flat share was a nurse on a terminal cancer ward for mostly children. > 90% of the patients died. They burned out within two years on the job. My aunt had to quit her job as hospital nurse because it physically ruined her body. She’s still suffering from that, decades later.…

> I believe that making sex work illegal and driving it back underground is not helping that conversation. I never indicated either of these would be solutions. I don't believe elevating sex work to a pedestal in the cultural consciousness is right or ethical. That is primarily what I am taking issue with. It can be lucrative but the toll on young women, often very young women, can be great. It's a damaging professio…

> I don't believe elevating sex work to a pedestal in the cultural consciousness is right or ethical.

It's not being put on a pedestal. It's being pulled up from the gutters.

> It's a damaging profession both to its consumers and to its creators.

There are far more damaging professions that are well respected and accepted in the modern world. However, because the stigma attached to them is generally positive, they get more assistance and help with that damage. Sex workers don't get that benefit.

> What we need is to have a frank discussion about what it entails and stop the trend of fetishizing or glorifying it as a desirable career. It is by and large ugly and violent.

That starts by not treating it like it's "by and large ugly and violent." If you want to have meaningful change, start by respecting it. Otherwise, you are really just part of the problem.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#442

Post by dragonwriter »

Telemakhos wrote: post #353
Spooky23 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people sell cheeseburgers at McDonalds? They need the cash.

The median OnlyFans account makes something like $180 gross, $136 net, per month. https://xsrus.com/the-economics-of-onlyfans Any minimum wage job provides more income. Selling cheeseburgers at McDonalds would be much more profitable than working OnlyFans for the majority of OnlyFans accounts.

> The median OnlyFans account makes something like $180 gross, $136 net, per month. https://xsrus.com/the-economics-of-onlyfans Any minimum wage job provides more income.

OnlyFans creators aren't all from the US, or even the developed world, and minimum wage isn’t a global constant; also, the stat on median income you cite excludes tips, so it understates things potentially quite significantly.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#443

Post by dragonwriter »

emptysongglass wrote: post #320
tomp wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The men who drive by want to cum as fast as possible with as little damage to their pocketbook as possible This cannot be true. Anyone can find ample porn online (definitely enough to cum) for free. Therefore it follows that people engaging with OnlyFans and other paid-for porn services must be getting something else out of it - the illusion of an intimate (two-way) relationship, the feeling of dominance (uttering…

She's my wife, please don't speculate on my (or her) honesty. The last thing sex workers need is more people mansplaining what their customers are looking for. Camsites are expensive, especially camsites catering to the one-to-one format. Per minute the rate is extremely high and most men can't afford it so they take what they can get. The ones who pay for longer shows often have both specific fetishes not easily cat…

> She's my wife, please don't speculate on my (or her) honesty

Arguing that the facts seem to contradict your (or your wife’s) interpretation (an argument I am observing, not endorsing) of the situation is not questioning either of your honesty. People can draw false conclusions without lying.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#444

Post by SkyMarshal »

650REDHAIR wrote: post #20

So our kids are getting older so I've been paying more attention to popular social networks and it's wild how many YouTubers, Twitch'ers, TikTok'ers, Instagram'ers have OF content directly linked from their non-porn bios. I don't like it, but I'm not sure what a good solution is. I mean, people are free to do what they'd like, but it's hard to police screen time 100% of the time and their peer group has a lot more ac…

One thing you can do is use all these things as teaching moments. Teach your children how to recognize all the ways they’re being manipulated, both by media, and in person by other people.

Build up their awareness and defenses at an early age, so they’ll be less vulnerable and more prepared when they go out on their own one day. Dark patterns, psychological manipulations, emotions and biases are all things they need to be aware of.

Once people are aware of how they’re being manipulated and can recognize it in real-time they’re less likely to fall victim to it.

Some resources:

[0]:https://www.darkpatterns.org/

[1]:https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/49176 (Games People Play)

[2]:https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/133203 (Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense)

[3]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

[4]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation

[5]:https://fs.blog/great-talks/psychology-human-misjudgment/

[6]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#445

Post by NateEag »

Telemakhos wrote: post #332
NateEag wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a guess, because his wife is a human and gets to make her own decisions?

There was a time when family members intervened when they saw loved ones engaging in self-harm. This husband is watching his wife expose herself to trauma so great that she feels compelled to seek therapy, a therapy provided by the same corporation that is profiting off her trauma. The easy conclusion is that the corporation provides this therapy to keep the traumatized people who drive the company's profits from qui…

I firmly agree the OP should encourage his wife to stop engaging in self-destructive behavior.

(I also believe sex work is necessarily self-destructive, as it commodifies, commercializes and depersonalizes the closest, most intimate way of relating to and bonding with another human that we have.)

Your phrasing of "why do you let your wife..." implies OP can and should control whether his wife does this self-destructive behavior.

He can't, literally, and he should not try to.

He is responsible for his choices, not hers.

Yes, if he sees this as hurting her and he's not trying to persuade her to stop doing it, he's responsible for that inaction on his part, and I'd say he should take action.

But, he needs to always remember he does not and should not control her.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#446

Post by flyinglizard »

htrp wrote: post #430
flyinglizard wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in no way exclusive to porn. After running a B2C business for a while I realized that if, as an owner, you should be wary of some people, it needs to be your biggest, most vocal fans. They are the most emotionally attached, feeling they’ve personally invested their money, time and faith into your brand and they are the most violent when disappointed. At some point they all expect special treatment, which make…

Your vocal B2C fans go digitally nuclear on you? What B2C industry are you in?

Any non-utilitarian B2C market with enthusiasts is like that - photography, fishing, drones, mountain biking… there’s endless drama in discussion forums, brand loyalty, flame wars and all of that reaches the vendors (especially the smaller ones which directly participate in communities).

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#447

Post by dragonwriter »

AKSucks wrote: post #226
ayngg wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in general there are some pretty big costs that aren't fully understood to doing sex work, even outside of the social stigma of being found out by your friends and family, there are mental health costs that are often not talked about. A lot of sex workers overtly reinforce social behaviors towards women (sexualization and objectification among other things) in order to appeal to men, which hurts them in the l…

Can we please not use the term "sex worker" for people who do not face the vast majority of risks (health/physical, financial, legal-of-the-criminal-sort, and emotional) that someone who actually engages in sex with other people for money does? You (generally speaking) cannot get infected with STIs, pregnant, assaulted, raped, drugged, stabbed, murdered, convicted, jailed - for being a camgirl. You (generally speakin…

> You (generally speaking) cannot get infected with STIs, pregnant, assaulted, raped, drugged, stabbed, murdered, convicted, jailed - for being a camgirl.

Yes, you can. Plenty of camgirls who start off doing exclusively solo work progress to other types of shows involving other people, which involve all the risks of in-person sex work (because it is that) as well as all the special risks of online sex work (because it is that, too), and presumably they do so because of the systematic incentives of the industry.

> Camgirls - and models - calling themselves "sex workers" is like calling yourself black when you had a great-grandfather who was black.

Given the continued influence of the one-drop rule on views of race by race essentialists on the White side, and that from the Black side the shared identity is mostly one of shared experience of white racism, that's perfectly normal.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#448

Post by NateEag »

monkeybutton wrote: post #435
anotherman554 wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There was a time when family members intervened when they saw loved ones engaging in self-harm." Some people would call removing you loved one's agency to make their own decisions abuse.

I agree that the question further up did come off as rather paternalistic in a bad way but their central point has merit: by continuing to support his wife's decision to work in that environment, doesn't that make him an enabler for the abuse?

It's not clear to me how the OP has interacted with his wife in reality, and I don't have interest in judging them.

In the abstract, though, I think yes, if you see someone being abused repeatedly and you support and encourage them to continue going back to the abusive relationship, you are enabling the abuse.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#449

Post by totony »

SilverRed wrote: post #45
650REDHAIR wrote: post #20

So our kids are getting older so I've been paying more attention to popular social networks and it's wild how many YouTubers, Twitch'ers, TikTok'ers, Instagram'ers have OF content directly linked from their non-porn bios. I don't like it, but I'm not sure what a good solution is. I mean, people are free to do what they'd like, but it's hard to police screen time 100% of the time and their peer group has a lot more ac…

Have you considered the alternative that this is not an evil which you are unable to control but just another way of living / thinking of sexual content? There is nothing inherently evil about this stuff so why is it terrible that it is becoming more accepted/common? If in 30 years we live in a society where people post nudes like they do facebook posts, is there anything wrong about this? Could you describe the harm…

>There is nothing inherently evil about this stuff so why is it terrible that it is becoming more accepted/common?

I disagree, I think it's perverse that creators try to create artificial one-way relationships with their viewers, especially for kids, but also for people at large which aren't adapted to deal with these kinds of relationships (which imo is abusive).

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#450

Post by ballenf »

toyg wrote: post #132
tinco wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The titles on sites like pornhub are a lot worse. Sometimes I feel like they're automatically generated or something, with weird sexual fantasies that aren't even remotely in the video. It's become a bit of a meme, and it certainly has always been present but for example the incest stuff, it's just disturbing to me to the point where I greatly prefer browsing on Reddit just because the titles are more tame. Another c…

>the titles sound so much more vulgar in Dutch than they do in English to me. It's the other way around: you're less emotionally connected to your second language. You're not phased by the most scurrilous elements of English, because of a combination of factors (like the way your brain processes a second language, and the fact that you did not grow up in a native English culture). Whereas you have a primary connectio…

I made the mistake when learning a second language of thinking that because those people were so comfortable swearing in English that they were just comfortable with swearing in general. So I threw around their swear words the same that they did mine.

I was astonished at their offense and didn't understand it for a long time.

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