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Rethinking Triplebyte

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Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#441

Post by heavyset_go »

cwp wrote: post #293
heavyset_go wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think a hiring process that puts engineers in control (no ghosting, get data on when a recruiter looks at your application, search ranking by whether companies lie to candidates) is something that should exist. I want to try to build it! This is a space that unions fill well compared to for-profit recruiting agencies. The organizations give engineers control and leverage in hiring, and can help them up-negotiate.…

Oh HELL no. Collective bargaining is inherently about eliminating competition between workers. That is, it creates a labour monopoly to balance out a labour monopsony. That might (might!) be a good thing for autoworkers. It would be an unmitigated disaster for software engineers, and the tech sector in general. People who write code are unbelievably productive compared to just about any other job function, and softwa…

> Collective bargaining is inherently about eliminating competition between workers

A yet every movie star in the US is in the same union as B-movie and infomercial actors.

> Another aspect of preventing competition is seniority.

Weird, considering pro-athlete unions regularly help kids out of college quickly become multi-millionaires.

> One of the archetypes of the tech world is the wunderkind—the brilliant kid fresh out of school that rockets to the top.

Weird, considering unions have been at the forefront of education, apprenticeships and training that helps kids out of school rocket to the top, the same apprenticeships and training that companies refuse to fund themselves.

> Sorry, you can't pay more to attract the best

Weird, considering SAG-AFTRA regularly helps movie stars up-negotiate multi-million dollar contracts.

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#442

Post by NateEag »

gwbas1c wrote: post #336

I almost applied to Triplebyte, but at the time they were Bay Area only, and I needed a remote job. The most important part of a job search is to avoid wasting time, so I stayed away. (But I would have used them if I was in the Bay Area.) What am I looking for? 1: I want my skills evaluated in a standard way by some neutral licensing board, just like engineers who build dams or surgeons. 2: I want job interviews base…

If your wife screws up anything significant, someone dies.

For most developers, the worst they can do is bankrupt the company they work for, and even that usually requires multiple compounding screwups and a bad luck roll.

I personally think the gap between our standards for doctoring and our standards for software development makes a lot of sense.

I do think people building life-sustaining software should be held to a higher standard, but that's pretty rare.

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#443

Post by llbeansandrice »

sgerenser wrote: post #439
llbeansandrice wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm unsure of exact enforcement and such but you could report them if you wanted. I also don't mind FAANG so much since there's so much info available for those positions on like levels.fyi. The biggest strength for me is that I can ask them and they have to tell me. When I was job searching before I'd ask the recruiter and then they'd always ask me what my target is. Not showing your cards is like negotiation 101. P…

True but if equity is ~50% of compensation at many tech companies, but also varies hugely, being forced to reveal base pay doesn’t mean much.

I guess not, but this is also a law that applies to _all_ job postings for CO. I feel like a lot of people are criticizing this law when I see it as an absolute step in the right direction.

It's not perfect, but I feel like it's wildly helpful for a ton of people. It helps transparency for a lot of positions and I feel like it rewards honest companies. If equity and bonuses are a big part I think it reduces the overhead for talking about salary to clear the way to talk more about equity and bonuses.

It's also in the early stages and CO is the only state with a law that requires disclosure up-front to my knowledge (someone mentioned CA has a law, but they only have to answer if asked). It feels like a fantastic first-step to me.

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#444

Post by pryelluw »

908B64B197 wrote: post #100
Terretta wrote: post #65

A benefit of Triplebyte to big enterprises not mentioned in Triplebyte’s discussion here: acting as engineering assessment proxy for engineering hiring managers stuck with pathologically risk averse enterprise HR departments. Often enterprise HR is paranoid of honestly evaluating anyone for anything, to the point that many HR teams tell one another and engineering hiring managers that it’s “illegal” to assess candida…

> If you think about joining a dev team where no one checked if any candidate could FizzBuzz, you can imagine the workplace environment that can end up with. That sounds hilarious How could a dev team not be able to write 5 lines?

Last year I did a project for an org that has a similarly sized team of developers. They could not figure out html and css. Hadn’t heard about git. And worse is that they developed on the production server. I’m not making this shit up.

They saw me as a god for fixing their shit and offered to hire me. No thanks!

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#445

Post by bradlys »

sosodev wrote: post #246
devwastaken wrote: post #191

As always with posts about employment, the idea that there's higher demand than supply for engineers is a lie. The demand for highly experienced cheap engineers is high, the demand for junior developers is almost non existent. New CS grads struggle to find employment, there are tens of thousands of very capable devs in open source that cannot find employment. Nobody hears about it because only those that succeed are…

I graduated a year ago from a no-name state university with roughly a 3.0 GPA. Today I work for a big startup making ~200K a year… so

How do you work at a startup making $200k salary with one year of experience? You must be working at a public company.

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#446

Post by sosodev »

bradlys wrote: post #445
sosodev wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I graduated a year ago from a no-name state university with roughly a 3.0 GPA. Today I work for a big startup making ~200K a year… so

How do you work at a startup making $200k salary with one year of experience? You must be working at a public company.

Well they went public right after I started but I still consider them a startup.

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#447

Post by vips7L »

slownews45 wrote: post #255
pmoriarty wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never, ever, ever give anyone a number until the salary negotiation stage of the interview (ie. after I've been given a job offer), and even then I only give the company a number as a counter to their offer. I always do this negotiation myself, and never let anyone else negotiate for me. Almost all recruiters have been fine with that, but a couple haven't. To such people I wish a good day and go my own way. There a…

On hiring side we screen folks out pretty quickly who can't discuss money. I used to be much more relaxed about this, but if you get burned doing a few rounds of interviews and it was a waste you wise up pretty quickly - teams do not like time wasted. I've also found that folks who can't / won't talk money - usually not great hires for a bunch of reasons. We're happy to talk through the different positions, levels, p…

Have you been up front with the type of comp you’re willing to give?

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#448

Post by totony »

flunhat wrote: post #248
devwastaken wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know 3 of them. They only receive responses from jobs similiar to, but not actually software dev. Basically tech support jobs but you have to know the basics of a windows/bash command line. No dev work involved. Companies advertise they're hiring. Like they advertise that they're profitable, make the best products, and are better than their competition. That doesn't mean it's true. Many positions are "nice to have"…

The data doesn't bear this out though -- the median* salary for a software developer is not only substantially higher than the national average salary, the rate of growth is also higher: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/5n4R_Osks_fVsVmedxJKsp9zPu... That's empirical evidence of a tight labor market that's difficult to fake. Why else would salaries rise so quickly from such a high base? Even if employers lie (they do…

>Why else would salaries rise so quickly from such a high base?

This can be explain by FAANG paying more, or people being more risk averse of having bad devs (ie hiring less, but paying more for more skilled).

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#449

Post by cutemonster »

ishiz wrote: post #272
slownews45 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On hiring side we screen folks out pretty quickly who can't discuss money. I used to be much more relaxed about this, but if you get burned doing a few rounds of interviews and it was a waste you wise up pretty quickly - teams do not like time wasted. I've also found that folks who can't / won't talk money - usually not great hires for a bunch of reasons. We're happy to talk through the different positions, levels, p…

Why can't you simply ask the candidate "We offer $min to $max for this position, is that acceptable?" That lets you and the candidate know whether proceeding further is a good use of time.

Maybe because there's a chance the job applicant will suggest < $min

Re: Rethinking Triplebyte

#450

Post by sgerenser »

opportune wrote: post #254
shagie wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe a bit of the difficulty that new grads have with trying to find employment is a combination of: * Reluctance to move / restrictions on where they want to move (only SF, Seattle, NYC) * Extreme focus on product development (and not applying for the operations jobs that keep many large orgs running). * Focus on working for a high salary at a big tech company (and not applying to jobs at companies that aren't…

I doubt people only wanting to move to Seattle/SF/NYC is the problem. What about all the people who only look for jobs in their hometown or regional hub where there are approximately 0 jobs for software engineers? From what I’ve seen that is a much more common problem, people basically limiting their search parameters to a very small set of all open jobs, rather than looking at the three cities that have the most job…

This, for sure. And you definitely don’t need to go to SF or Seattle, there’s plenty of jobs in cities like Chicago, Austin, Salt Lake City, Raleigh, Atlanta, etc. But there may be be much less options in rust belt towns and rural areas.
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