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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#441

Post by rbg246 »

nostromo wrote: post #425
rbg246 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think needing to survive forces or keeping your human dignity forces you to find a job? That's the way I see it.

That job might not exist at all if the government mandates your wage to be higher than the value of your labor.

Certainly, it's a balancing act.

But equally is it ok for people to work hard and long hours and only barely make Or not quite make ends meet?

Sorry I should note that I am not saying you are advocating for the above(could be misread).

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#442

Post by humanrebar »

8note wrote: post #413
humanrebar wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I worked minimum wage and it allowed my poor household to make ends meet. And another minimum wage job helped me stay solvent enough to survive university.

In what location though? Living costs are notably different by location

Apologies, but I'd rather not reveal too much personal info. But I did get need-based financial assistance in university. And I did attend a low cost school for financial reasons.

I didn't "pay my way through school washing dishes" or anything like that.

I wasn't supported by my family so the extra income through low pay jobs was critical.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#443

Post by jethro_tell »

jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

meh, if the only way you can get a piece of the pie is to take it from someone who has less opportunity than you I don't really feel bad.

Cities like Seattle raised their minimum wage, there was a lot of worry that everyone would go broke and there would be no food to eat. As it turned out, a few people shut down and someone else almost immediately opens a similar business in that place.

Not everyone runs a business that is properly priced, or properly managed to make a profit, but lots of people can do it, and they tend to fill the void that is left by businesses that can't offer a product that people feel is worth paying enough to support less than poverty wage.

Even for companies that pay really well, some don't make it.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#444

Post by unpolloloco »

enjoyyourlife wrote: post #430
zizee wrote: post #382

Honest question: why do discussions about minimum wage in the U.S. never propose having teenagers having a different minimum to adults? In australia we have a $12.50/hr minimum for 15 year olds. It climbs in increments until about $25/hr. This system allows teenagers to get a foot in the door for low-skilled jobs, and allows adults to get paid a livable wage. The result is that a lot of fast food jobs are performed b…

That incentivizes companies to hire teenagers instead of adults

Is that a bad thing (in the long run)? More people with work experience = more people who are enjoyable at higher rates later on. Maybe a bit of short-term pain, but everyone's better off in the long run?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#445

Post by heavyset_go »

dcolkitt wrote: post #259
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, no education, no experience jobs are the norm. Does that restaurant pay incoming career food service staff a wage sufficient to raise a family on? A solid third of the households in the US take in under 50k/yr. More than half that are under 25k. I don't know about you, but 37k doesn't go far. Assuming 30% effective tax rate that's 2158/mo. 1 bed flat in my city $1400 Cell phone bill: $100 Home internet: $100 E…

30% is way to high an effective tax rate at that income. Below median earners pay effectively zero taxes with the EITC and standard deductible. $400 is way too high for a car payment. You can get a great used compact for $10k. With decent credit that’ll run you $150/month. $100 is way too high for home Internet. I pay $40/month for 100 mbps, which is more than enough for five decides to stream simultaneously. $1400 i…

> $100 is way too high for home Internet. I pay $40/month for 100 mbps, which is more than enough for five decides to stream simultaneously.

It's either pay that or get DSL in many places in the US.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#446

Post by anonuser123456 »

michael1999 wrote: post #264
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

This article unfortunately doesn't address the business side of the problem. Fast food restaurants, or place like "Dale's" mentioned in the article, make very little profit. It is most likely below 10%. Here is an estimate: https://www.restaurant365.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profi... . A 10% profit is very modest. That's not the story of the "fat cats getting rich on the back of the workers" that the article is al…

Firms in a competitive market are price takers. None of them individually can raise prices. But an increase of the minimum wage increase affects all of them together, and will cause a new equilibrium at higher prices.

This assumes demand is inelastic to price.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#447

Post by cbozeman »

kukx wrote: post #406
andrei_says_ wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Maintaining laws which force working employees into poverty in order to support inadequate business models is not the solution. Employees outnumber business owners - more people having spending power is vital for the economy.

Please, define what is a poverty wage, it is important. How much stuff one should afford to avoid being called poor. What is the change of the model in case of the restaurant? I can see only one, automate the jobs away to reduce the costs, namely replace humans with robots. But, if we consider these crappy jobs, what about people that are not qualified/able to do any more advanced jobs? People have vastly different c…

> Please, define what is a poverty wage, it is important.

The ability to afford adequate housing, food, and clothing. I'm not saying we should mandate people can afford a 1500 sq. ft. home, ribeye steaks every evening, and Ralph Lauren Polo threads, but how about at least a one bedroom, one bathroom apartment; nutritious, nourishing food; Walmart clothing at a minimum.

> What is the change of the model in case of the restaurant?

Removing the "tipping" system. Increase prices such that an employee can afford the above mentioned necessities.

> I can see only one, automate the jobs away to reduce the costs, namely replace humans with robots.

I think the industry will go here no matter what changes we do or do not make to policy, business models, etc.

> But, if we consider these crappy jobs, what about people that are not qualified/able to do any more advanced jobs? People have vastly different cognitive abilities, it is not like we can teach everyone to code. It will not work.

We either decide these people are expendable, or that they are human beings worthy of a baseline of a dignified life. I define a dignified life as the ability to have at least the minimums I described above.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#448

Post by ramshorns »

zizee wrote: post #382

Honest question: why do discussions about minimum wage in the U.S. never propose having teenagers having a different minimum to adults? In australia we have a $12.50/hr minimum for 15 year olds. It climbs in increments until about $25/hr. This system allows teenagers to get a foot in the door for low-skilled jobs, and allows adults to get paid a livable wage. The result is that a lot of fast food jobs are performed b…

Paying poverty wages is wrong, and child labour is wrong. They don't cancel each other out.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#449

Post by simfree »

robocat wrote: post #353
simfree wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on the car and where you live insurance can be lower or higher. Outside of collector/classic car insurance policies (eg: this is not a daily driver car and you agree not to exceed a low number of miles yearly) or parked insurance (a few hundred miles a year), there is not $200 to $300 a year car insurance in the USA. Tribal reservations don't require license plates or insurance usually, and you cab choose t…

> and you ca[n] choose to self insure if you have sufficient cash set aside. I think you are ignoring the third party risks - damaging an expensive car or hurting someone. In that situation, you use insurance if you want to protect your money. If you have no money, insurance make little sense, and you just suck up the risks of pranging your beater.

Self insurance is not legal if you do not meet your state's requirements for cash set aside for self insurance purposes and vehicle count. This is usually a sizable sum of money that you need to set aside to self insure.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#450

Post by humanrebar »

pnutjam wrote: post #415
humanrebar wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing for low wages. But it's dishonest to conflate household income and individual salary. More specifically, having a roommate or two or living with some family unit is fairly normal at that age. So other income needs to be accounted for to make that semantic argument stick. Of course not everyone can have employed housemates. But even in those cases, it's not clear to me that banning 16 year olds from wo…

I'm sorry, but I think you absolutely have to give reasons to create a subclass. People do not need to explain why they should be treated the same.

How is paying a teenager to sweep a floor making a subclass? Seems like we're on a trajectory to replace that teenager with a vacuum drone, and I don't see as many teenagers employed in that world.

The wealthy wouldn't notice. Their teenagers are entrepreneuring and racking up unpaid volunteer hours to pad resumes. The teenagers with jobs are the ones that could use the money.

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