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Et Tu, Signal?

stephendiehl.com

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Re: Et Tu, Signal?

#441

Post by MarcosDione »

apotheon wrote: post #414
driverdan wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In order for signal to compete in the 21st century with messaging apps around the world they need a payment story. What is a "payment story" and why do messaging apps need it? Signal should be secure SMS with a better UI, nothing more.

I'm pretty sure that's just a buzzword for "revenue model", which is to say a plan for how it will make money. The charitable interpretation in this case would be "how to keep devs on the job and not homeless", and the uncharitable case would be "how to make Moxie Marlinspike and his buddies obscenely rich". It looks to me like either there's a lot of selling out going on here or there's a lot of great examples of ho…

I love the dichotomy 'working vs homeless'. It's a sad state of a country if being jobless implies homeless. Also, I don't think someone working for a SV company can't just move somewhere cheaper and reduce spending until the next gig.

Re: Et Tu, Signal?

#442

Post by cratermoon »

asddubs wrote: post #223
cratermoon wrote: post #202

It's funny, to me, to see a culture that values personal freedom and shuns regulatory oversight get bent out of shape when their platforms take those values to their logical conclusion. It's even funnier when they realize there's no Free Market solution.

i don't shun regulatory oversight, i shun regulatory overreach

If the line between oversight and overreach is so far tilted to one side that shenanigans like the story here pass legal muster, what's the difference?

Re: Et Tu, Signal?

#443

Post by niutech »

tonyjstark wrote: post #62

This article mirrors my feelings toward this announcement well. I spent a significant amount of time trying out different messaging apps and convincing my friends and family to move over from Telegram and WhatsApp. I used my reputation and their trust in my expertise. The whole blockchain industry is just too mixed with scams that I feel comfortable to have my non-tech relatives dealing with it. It's enough that I ha…

Can't you just continue to use Signal as before, without using the cryptocurrency?

Re: Et Tu, Signal?

#444

Post by niutech »

darkwater wrote: post #149
IgorPartola wrote: post #4

I was recently pulled onto Signal by a non-techie who values his privacy. I talked to him about Matrix/Element and he had no idea what that was, but was very happy with Siganl. I must admit, the app is very nice. All I had to do was give it access to my contacts and bam, I am now able to chat with all my contacts. By comparison, Element is much more like a chat program than a phone messenger. It's good for "I want to…

> By comparison, Element is much more like a chat program than a phone messenger. It's good for "I want to connect with that person from GitHub" Element is what messaging should have been from the START: a federated service just like email, where you register an account with your provider of choice, just like email, and start adding/chatting other people after getting to know their address, just like email. So, inste…

There was decentralized XMPP/Jabber back in the days with lots of clients and it didn't catch up.

Re: Et Tu, Signal?

#445

Post by ajkdhcb2 »

mikeyla85 wrote: post #403
xvector wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of contributing to the Monero project to improve the space for everyone, you decide to fragment the privacy coin space instead with a sketchy premined coin.

You...don't believe in new coins, innovation on features, or marketplace competition?

Network effect and perceived legitimacy is critical. Splitting that is obviously suboptimal, especially when privacy depends on having a large number of users to blend in with. There isn't a single cryptocurrency in the top 20 by marketcap that isn't mass-surveillance-friendly

Re: Et Tu, Signal?

#446

Post by ajkdhcb2 »

jonf3n wrote: post #430
josh2600 wrote: post #275

Good Morning, I am the CEO of MobileCoin. A few points: 1) I started MobileCoin to fund Signal. That’s it. I believe that a world with a well-funded signal is a better place. In order for signal to compete in the 21st century with messaging apps around the world they need a payment story. MobileCoin is the only thing ever built that is both privacy protecting and fast that meets the standards of data retention signal…

Why not use the Bitcoin Lightning Network? It allows faster transactions then MobileCoin and much better privacy than on-chain Bitcoin. Privacy doesn't match Monero, but will undoubtedly improve over time. Clearly this would prevent the "get rich from pre-mine" benefit, but also remove 99% of the criticisms related to greed, centralization, geographic limitations, etc. I don't see how MobileCoin can be censorship-res…

Bitcoin isn't private or suitable for peer-to-peer transactions since it has tainted coins.

Re: Et Tu, Signal?

#447

Post by feanaro »

skrowl wrote: post #104
simias wrote: post #20

I definitely agree with the article that it felt a bit like a betrayal. I've pushed some friends and family to use it over Telegram despite significant usability issue, and now I see that instead of implementing some IMO basic features like proper message sync and easy backup when you get a new phone, they prefer to implement a... micropayment system? Based on some niche altcoin which doesn't even exist on mainstream…

Telegram is just so much more usable than Signal. The perceived advantage of Signal over Telegram is LITERALLY not having an option for a cloud-synced chat and ONLY having end to end encrypted chats. That's all. You give up of usability to get that advantage. Explain to your mom why she has to give up Telegram to get basically the same functionality as Telegram secret chats. Signals crypto is used by Facebook and was…

Can you share what you have discovered about Telegram's crypto implementation in these 15 minutes of research when you did them? That would be far more useful than just leaving a teaser without anything concrete.

Re: Et Tu, Signal?

#448

Post by feanaro »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #68
simias wrote: post #20

I definitely agree with the article that it felt a bit like a betrayal. I've pushed some friends and family to use it over Telegram despite significant usability issue, and now I see that instead of implementing some IMO basic features like proper message sync and easy backup when you get a new phone, they prefer to implement a... micropayment system? Based on some niche altcoin which doesn't even exist on mainstream…

Proper message sync is hardly possible with end-to-end encryption everyone so excited about (without fully understanding the implications of true secrecy). If you have e2ee and then sync messages via google drive (looking at you, Viber), you are kinda missing the point.

Matrix features E2EE with proper message sync between clients: https://matrix.org/

Re: Et Tu, Signal?

#449

Post by m0dest »

Siira wrote: post #437
cshg wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal's by default e2e encrypted chats can be used across platforms, e.g. synced across desktop and mobile. Telegram's secret chats are only available on the device where you initiated them. That's a major disadvantage.

Signal is single-device. The crappy web app that reads stuff from your phone is not a real client.

The same is true of Whatsapp; this is not a major impediment to adoption for most people.

Re: Et Tu, Signal?

#450

Post by darkwater »

niutech wrote: post #444
darkwater wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By comparison, Element is much more like a chat program than a phone messenger. It's good for "I want to connect with that person from GitHub" Element is what messaging should have been from the START: a federated service just like email, where you register an account with your provider of choice, just like email, and start adding/chatting other people after getting to know their address, just like email. So, inste…

There was decentralized XMPP/Jabber back in the days with lots of clients and it didn't catch up.

But I said with today's Element UI/UX. Anyway email was already a standard before corporations took over internet, it would have been really difficult to have a decentralized standard taking over in the 2009 Internet already. Also XMPP was EEE by both Google and Facebook around that time.
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