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Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

reuters.com

441–450 of 572 posts

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or perhaps not, given that 2020 deaths in Germany were 985,145, only 4.85% higher than 2019, and only 3.2% higher than 2018 (and so basically in line with what we would expect from an aging society). Are we still having this debate.... Of course the overall mortality didn't change much, people stayed at home for literally 75% of the year. Do you have the split stats for accidental deaths, road deaths, disease relat…

You can check overall deaths for Europe on Euromomo. It shows that despite everything we've done we've had significant more deaths in certain age groups. You seem to be genuinely curious. For those who want to scoff it off: look at those numbers and consider the fact that these numbers are what we see after a war-sized effort to prevent more damage: in most populations only a few percent have been hit. At the moment…

> and consider the fact that these numbers are what we see after a war-sized effort to prevent more damage

Which doesn't seem to have worked - infection rates are dropping off all around the world, regardless of the vaccination levels. It looks more like we hit natural herd immunity at about the same time in different places whether or not masks and lockdowns were used.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at this COVID daily trends graph from the CDC: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailytrends... From an average of about 50k cases reported daily in April through October to about 200k cases reported daily in November, December, and January, then back down to 60k by March. And there's a similar winter increase in the worldwide cases (some of which is from the US cases, but not all): https:/…

It's not a surprise that an airborne virus spreads more during the time of year when people are spending more time indoors with their windows closed. Same reason it was rampant in the US subtropical south during last summer, when it was uncomfortably hot and people stayed inside where there's AC.

This is what seasonality means. It doesn't mean "it'll be eliminated next season".

They're referring more to, success can be claimed for lockdowns/etc whether or not they had an effect, simply by waiting until the natural seasonality causes a drop in cases.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#443
post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're on meds, don't skip doses. If not, please go find a specialist and get some help.

We already place a human value on life in healthcare, via QALY (Quality Adjusted Life Years) This is typically about $50,000/year in places like the UK. If you run this same calculation against what we have done for COVID, the figure comes to tens of millions of dollars per life year. The same sums spent on lockdown and lockdown compensation could have been invested in general healthcare, or tackling air pollution (w…

> We already place a human value on life in healthcare, via QALY (Quality Adjusted Life Years)

That calculation is profoundly flawed and is based on linearity: some of the most expensive treatments are extortionate, relative to the true and actual cost to produce, against the QALY/DALY calculation. Instead, if a pharmaceutical company or a medical device company charges an extortionate amount of money for a product, the patents should be seized and governments should be allowed to produce them themselves. In a lot of cases, government funding does 80-90%+ of the research and work that allows the medical product to be marketed.

In the case of coronavirus, some governments, such as the United States, had the capability, at least theoretically to at least try and pursue the elimination strategy. That is, if the United States did not have a neoliberal government in place at the time and the citizens of the United States actually trusted its public officials. A lot of smaller countries have fared well during the pandemic. It is clear that the elimination strategy has been quite successful from an economic standpoint, for the countries that have pursued it.

> The same sums spent on lockdown and lockdown compensation could have been invested in general healthcare, or tackling air pollution (which kills 800,000 Europeans a year).

As for this matter, health insurance (private/public/national) should absolutely cover PAPRs (powered air purifying respirators) for people who are immunocompromised, have lung issues, have severe heart issues, or are at high risk from dying from illnesses like influenza. There are now half-mask (non-helmet and/or not full facemask) PAPRs that are more discreet and wearable, that are much more pragmatic than typical masks: https://industrial.optrel.com/en/product-selector-1/swiss-ai...

It is crucial that we first and foremost protect our most vulnerable, out of the principle of solidarity.

Obviously some of those deaths are directly from global warming. We have not done enough with respect to global warming, and people will die. But, this is unacceptable and we knew that it was coming. We have to do more, and putting a dollar amount on the lives of the most vulnerable is a distraction that keeps us from doing better as a society. We all pay a price by doing this.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#444
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen anything that indicates that the risk of long-term consequences is significantly elevated above other viral diseases. There is a condition (which we know too little about, and which - as one of the few good outcomes of the COVID situation - is now actually getting some attention) that can lead to fatigue and other symptoms after fighting off a viral infection, but it's not unique to COVID. A year ago t…

Mh, do you really want to play down the possibility of unknown long-term consequences? Check out this: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.23.432474v1 The Spanish Flu has led to a „sleeping sickness“ epidemic years after it ceased.

There is no evidence of the link between sleeping sickness, EL, and Spanish flu.

> Since encephalitis lethargica’s (EL) prevalence in the 1920s, epidemiological and clinical debate has persisted over whether EL was caused by, potentiated by, or merely coincident with the Spanish influenza pandemic. Epidemiologic analyses generally suggest that the disorders were coincidental.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalitis_lethargica https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2778472/

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#445
post #341
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> COVID is pretty much negligible in many younger age groups "Paediatricians in Israel, which has surged ahead in vaccinating its adult population, reported a sharp rise in covid-19 infections among young people, with more than 50 000 children and teens testing positive in January—more than Israel saw in any month during the first and second waves." https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n383

Susceptible to infection, absolutely, but are they suffering severe symptoms or dying in large numbers? No. A single metric (e.g. positive tests) is not enough to assess any severity here, and even those metrics come with caveats because all of our methods of determining them are imprecise.

A simulation from the economist gives ~2% chance of being hospitalized if you get COVID as a 29 yr old male with no comorbidities.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/covid-pandemic-mort...

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#446
post #114

I've mentioned it in a comment in the previous thread but it's not completely unexpected and with no causal link. Adenovirus induced blood coagulation problems are known: Adenovirus-induced thrombocytopenia: the role of von Willebrand factor and P-selectin in mediating accelerated platelet clearance https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000649712... You can see the number of reported cases across Europe…

Does this mean there are potential risks of clots with the J&J vaccine as well?

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is forcing you to get the vax. I would have personally taken the Moderna vax months before the FDA approved it because I was following the research closely.

I'm curious, were you able to find specific numbers for any of the studies done for regulatory approval? The raw data showing how many people got the drug, how many had side effects, and how this compares to normal rates? I haven't had any luck with that. I assume these numbers are what the FDA is looking at. Possible side effects are documented in the packaging for a drug, but that doesn't qualify the risk without n…

The raw data is proprietary and the analyzed data summary is available on the FDA website.

I have no idea what OP means when he says “following it closely” as that’s impossible beyond press releases.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't taking the 1 in 567,000 risk eliminate the 1 in 350,000 risk. Vaccine risk and disease risks don't stack. But I could be mistaken, statistics is hard you know.

~200 people in this age bracket in the US already died. If you gave everyone in that age bracket this particular vaccine an additional ~100 might die. They stack, they don't negate, those 200 people already died. If the covid risk was flat over time, if you offered this vaccine yearly (quite possibly necessary) then you'd be saving ~90 lives in this age bracket per year. 10 would still die of covid, 100 would die fro…

fwiw about current state of play: in the US and most EU countries no vaccine is even approved for those under 18.

The challenge with COVID as always is that the risk of death is correlated across the population. So a 25 yo having COVID increases the odds that he dies and that everyone around him dies. But that’s a whole other discussion.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#449
post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a medically reasonable response that solicits snarky remarks, it's the complete retardation of the official covid response so far, and even reasonable decisions just are landing on a pile of steaming crap now. - billions per week of half assed lockdown vs a few billion more for high quality timeley vaccine delivieries of the good stuff --- of course they chose the lockdown - open schools as if nothing happen…

Suspending vaccinations for side effects that happen in 1 in 300000 cases is not medically reasonable. Even if all these cases are due to the vaccine, not vaccinating gives a worse result than vaccinating so it’s the dumb thing to do. Which is what WHO and EMA are saying. But now that there’s panic, they’re not relevant anymore.

When was the WHO ever relevant wrt Covid 19 though? Their advice has been contradictory. They gave guidance before knowing whether masks would help, and later had to change it. They gave guidance about the transmissibility of the virus, and then changed it. Not knowing whether something is true does not stop them from speaking with authority. To put icing on the cake, they perform a puppet show for the CCP and then declare their confidence in understanding the origin of the virus. They say a lot of definitive things without knowing anything definitive.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope not, but those can be famous last words. Even if AZ works as marketed, it's no where near 100%. Then we have different strains

What you said about different strains has never been more than click-bait and conjecture. Please stopping spreading this, people are scared enough already. This is not how t-cell immunity and coronaviruses work [0]. From an article titled "Lab studies suggest Pfizer, Moderna vaccines can protect against coronavirus variant" I quote: "While the blood serum samples produced less neutralizing antibody activity, it was s…

If you have a well functioning immune system the vaccine should likely impart an advantage over no immunity and you have a good chance of fighting off the SARS quicker than without vaccination or immunity.

The problem however is those with weak immune systems. In these cases, the vaccine is unlikely to help these people much, and they become breeding grounds for escape variants.

It's like taking a quarter dose of an antibiotic, against an infection of an organism that tends to mutate at a high rate. This places a large pressure on the organism for an escape variant.

This is exactly what Bossche warns of. Listen to minute 37 onward: https://www.brighteon.com/257797f0-06fa-4596-be69-af71bb3adc...

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