Bitcoin Is Time • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#441

Post by reedjosh » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #388

fwiwm2c wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop shilling. And to have the galls to say something like Nano has the ability to take on Bitcoin just indicates that you very new to this market - and thus want to make a quick buck by shilling your random shitcoin. The thing which Bitcoin has, and that few others can match, is acceptability from a large swatch of investors and predictable security/emission schedule. And, just fyi, Nano is not made of users. Go to…

> most of us are in here for the money and don't give two hoots of the technology Monero's technology enables private and untraceable transactions. It's amazing and I own some just because of that property. Seems to be the only cryptocurrency that still aims to be an actual currency. You're right about the altcoins though.

I love Monero. The transactions are fast and cheap too.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#442

Post by lottin » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

hfsp wrote: post #356

toto444 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sour grapes syndrome is a result of pride, I think. Or maybe it comes from people who have read an Econo101 textbook and who have spent a lot of time trying to explain a crowd of Bitcoin enthusiasts why their reasoning is wrong but no one has been listening to them so far so they are bored. Back in the time I used to spend my days on a forum about Economics. Every other week there was a random guy who signed up jus…

>Or maybe it comes from people who have read an Econo101 textbook and who have spent a lot of time trying to explain a crowd of Bitcoin enthusiasts why their reasoning is wrong The market decides. Not an economics "expert", nor fitting btc to an arbitrary theoretical definition of money. >It seems that tech has enabled a grand new theory about money to be implemented. Are you aware of the Austrian school of economics…

> Austrian school of economics

The only school of economic thought that is built upon the rejection of the scientific method.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praxeology

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#443

Post by fwiwm2c » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

akudha wrote: post #407

sphix0r wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really sad to see the current state of bitcoin. We can't really justify the current energy consumption while mainly being used as a financial instrument to speculate on. Nano has been on my eye for a while now. I hope Nano will get the attention it deserves. Sub second feeless money settlement transactions is such a game changer. Nano just works.

Any thoughts on Cardano? They seem to be moving slow, but they also seem to be taking a more rigorous approach.

Cardano is the daddy of shitcoins. It is the Ripple of this bull run. Literally the only thing it is being used for is speculation. Everything else is "coming soon".

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#444

Post by noxer » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

cyphertruck wrote: post #222

noxer wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Bitcoin is onto something What if it "was"? The "hate" people express against bitcoin especially here on HN is often towards the implementation. People clearly see the flaw in PoW if they are not emotionally attached to it because they have no money at stake. You should not misinterpret that as hate because they missed the train to richness. Objectively PoW does not scale. Objectively we have DLTs (blockchains) with…

As an engineer with twenty years experience in this space and nearly as long studying the economics of it, I have yet to see a replacement for PoW that solves the problem that PoW solves. Proof of Work is trustless decentralization. Proof of stake is trusting the dudes who premined the coin and sold you a “fix for bitcoins inherent problem” to hype their ICO. If you were right, after 10 years one of those PoS currenc…

Its right in the message above. FBA is the result of researching how to make a bitcoin like system without PoW. PoS however is based on the ideas of PoW, it just moves the flaws, its not a solution.

FBA was "invented/discovered" before PoS coins even existed.

Essentially FBA is a distributed voting solution. Instead of let the person who has solved the PoW write the Tx in a block, everyone just votes on Tx order. The threshold is rather arbitrary. Most systems use something around 80%. In practice every valid Tx has near 100% votes anyway because no one listens to dishonest nodes. But nodes can go offline or Tx propagation can be delayed so a Tx could have only reached part of the network and thus not reach 100% Not a big deal even if a Tx has less than 80%. Nodes just re-vote for the Tx for the next round. Double spend is solved by the ordering alone. If one Tx is first the second that moves the same funds somewhere else, breaks a fundamental Tx rule so nodes wont vote to include the second. Which one came first is irrelevant. Each node just votes for the one he got first and in a possible second round it votes for what the majority of other nodes said came first. So the distributes system can not reach a state where a Tx is stuck.

This is all very very very much simplified ofc but you can easily lookup systems and dig into details if you are interested. There are real "blocklchains" running with FBA since many many years so it without any doubt works. Although like I said in my original post it can allays be improved.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#445

Post by fwiwm2c » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

aeternum wrote: post #323

gnrlst wrote: post #210

I'm ready to be downvoted to oblivion, especially by all the Bitcoin purists, but I hope my message sparks at least some curiosity. Bitcoin is getting "weaker" every year for several reasons: - emerging centralization due to economies of scale. If this trend continues the mining power will be so consolidated that a 51% attack will be likely. The Nakamoto coefficient is already at 4, and tending towards 3. - energy us…

Suppose I create a new coin that I also call Nano. I create a bunch of bots and websites and post on message boards so it looks like my version is more popular and has more participants. How will people tell the difference?

You won't. This is why Bitcoin is valuable since it has stood the test of time and has gained more acceptability. Nanos and other nonsense coins are just trying to attack the emperor in the hope that they come close to it and thus make the speculators a lot of money.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#446

Post by anthropodie » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

fredfoobar wrote: post #373

boredpandas777 wrote: post #348

Let me fix that title. Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I only have 11 points. Go ahead. "Bitcoin Is A Waste of Time (and Resources)" What Bitcoin has done is that it taught people they can come together in a sustained flash mob (like an on-the-fly hedge fund operation) and manipulate the price of speculative assets by creating artificial short-term pump-n-dump type demand. Bitcoin has trained our colle…

I've been saying the same damn thing about automobiles man, horses already have self driving even! and they don't pollute like cars. Look at the mess we're in now! who's laughing?? Cars pollute and need roads, we had to build so many roads and gas stations. We even had to go to war to make sure we have enough oil.

I have been trying to convince this in comments here but you did a damn good job with the analogy and now I am gonna use it every time this comes up. Thank you.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#447

Post by Jimmc414 » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #379

fredfoobar wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been saying the same damn thing about automobiles man, horses already have self driving even! and they don't pollute like cars. Look at the mess we're in now! who's laughing?? Cars pollute and need roads, we had to build so many roads and gas stations. We even had to go to war to make sure we have enough oil.

I guess the difference is cars are useful. What can I do with a bitcoin except hope to sell it for more USD later?

If only you could do that with cars.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#448

Post by drazulay » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

Did you mean: bitcoin is _timestamped_? ;)

If I might chip in with my freshly minted 1 karma account.. Bitcoin/"Satoshi" was an incubator of sorts. It brought the brightest minds together to build a new internet that is resistant to tampering by your neighbour or the government. It will in due time make way for the rising stars in that sector (IOHK I'm looking at you!) that will incrementally work toward perfect balance, until it itself is superseded some day.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#449

Post by Igelau » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:25 PM UTC

fredfoobar wrote: post #373

boredpandas777 wrote: post #348

Let me fix that title. Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I only have 11 points. Go ahead. "Bitcoin Is A Waste of Time (and Resources)" What Bitcoin has done is that it taught people they can come together in a sustained flash mob (like an on-the-fly hedge fund operation) and manipulate the price of speculative assets by creating artificial short-term pump-n-dump type demand. Bitcoin has trained our colle…

I've been saying the same damn thing about automobiles man, horses already have self driving even! and they don't pollute like cars. Look at the mess we're in now! who's laughing?? Cars pollute and need roads, we had to build so many roads and gas stations. We even had to go to war to make sure we have enough oil.

Now that you mention it, if my car was a living creature, I'd probably give a damn about taking care of it...

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#450

Post by fwiwm2c » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 7:26 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #410

matheusmoreira wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is technologically obsolete but that doesn't matter. As the very first coin, its history is the main reason it's still relevant today. It's very well known and that makes its position as the number one cryptocurrency extremely hard to shake even though we have much better coins now such as Monero.

> Bitcoin is technologically obsolete but that doesn't matter. Which just underlines how much of this whole phenomenon is brand and hype.

Says someone who is using 1970s technology called ACH and SWIFT to send money over. At least be aware of what is happening around you before attacking other technologies.