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Coinbase S-1

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Re: Coinbase S-1

#441

Post by graeme »

vmception wrote: post #407
chadash wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but also a skeptic and here are my thoughts: - Market cap is sort of a misleading stat. Microsoft's market cap is ~1.75 trillion, but it's p/e ratio is 34. So if they stopped reinvesting in their business, I'd be making 3% yearly on that investment with a hedge against inflation since they can just raise prices. A lot more goes into their valuation than that, but my point is that even if you are a huge skepti…

wow you have so many conflicting views, irrelevant comparisons between two types of markets and asset class, and don't seem to realize it? equities markets cant be compared to a commodity. so that invalidates your entire first paragraph, the longest one. as a corollary to that, don't derive your confidence from equities investors opining about commodities for the first time in their lives. you have equities investors…

> equities markets cant be compared to a commodity.

But BTC advocates do so all the time by using an equity markets term, market cap. As far as I know that isn’t a term applied to commodities.

Also commodities have a use value. In what way is bitcoin a commodity?

Re: Coinbase S-1

#442

Post by dehrmann »

mediaguilt wrote: post #423
arnaudsm wrote: post #44

Many have forgotten why we used cryptocurrencies in the first place. The original promise of cryptocurrency was to become independent from banks. In the end CoinBase (like every exchange) is a great product, but just a bank. It's centralized, hackable, has economies of scale, etc.

Many have forgotten why we used the internet in the first place. The original promise of the internet was to become independent from media/science/gov monopolies. In the end FAANG (like most popular websites) is a great product, but just the same as before. It's centralized, hackable, has economies of scale, etc.

> The original promise of the internet was to become independent from media/science/gov monopolies

Depending on your definition or "internet," it was to connect military computers to each other.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#443

Post by yunesj »

arnaudsm wrote: post #44

Many have forgotten why we used cryptocurrencies in the first place. The original promise of cryptocurrency was to become independent from banks. In the end CoinBase (like every exchange) is a great product, but just a bank. It's centralized, hackable, has economies of scale, etc.

We were never against private banks giving loans or private exchanges facilitating exchange.

We wanted bitcoin because govt control of money results in:

(1) new $ is unfairly distributed, (2) manipulation of $ to force consumer spending, (3) use of $ to fund wars and other govt programs, (4) threats of war are used to sustain $'s status as reserve currency, (5) absence of any innovation in $

and bitcoin addresses these problems, while being censorship-resistant. BTC has been a great success for sending remittance payments, providing a store of value in countries with hyperinflation, and spurring innovation in the financial sector.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#444

Post by varajelle »

uncletammy wrote: post #430
cactus2093 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t speak for everyone there, “we” don’t all have the same reason. I like Bitcoin as a diversification for being a “better version of gold” - it has the scarcity and you can physically own it but it is much easier to store and send anywhere in the world if needed. These properties also mean that in a pinch, if you live in an unstable society or one facing high inflation it can work as an alternative financial syste…

> These properties also mean that in a pinch, if you live in an unstable society or one facing high inflation it can work as an alternative financial system. At the time of writing this comment, if you want your BTC transaction confirmed in the next hour it would cost you ~ 10USD ( https://bitcoiner.live/ ) . What planet do you live on where you think a non-negligible percentage of people in ANY country, let alone a…

With the lightning network, the cost of a transaction is negligible.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#445

Post by carlineng »

azinman2 wrote: post #437

So almost all of the comments here are about bitcoin generally. While that’s not totally surprising, does anyone have any insight on whether or not this S1 reveals interesting data that might inform the public about investing in coin base (eg why they filed an S1)?

From "Use of Proceeds" on p78:

"To the extent any registered stockholder chooses to sell shares of our Class A common stock covered by this prospectus, we will not receive any proceeds from any such sales of our Class A common stock."

This is a direct listing, so I think its primarily a liquidity event for investors and employees.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#446

Post by dehrmann »

anonu wrote: post #37

Love reading the risk factors section. First thought: how can a lay person possibly understood the risks as laid out here? Also they view this as a major risk: •the identification of Satoshi Nakamoto, the pseudonymous person or persons who developed Bitcoin, or the transfer of Satoshi’s Bitcoins; Second thought, what an incredible business and growth. 1.14bn in revenue on 193bn in trading volume: thats 60bps on every…

My fear is that there are interesting attacks you can do if you control a lot the miner pool, DDOoS it, hack it, are a government that gets access to it, etc. that would destroy confidence in Bitcoin, and it only becomes a bigger and bigger target. Sure, there are others that have mitigated these concerns, but it's the poster child.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#447

Post by ttul »

azinman2 wrote: post #437

So almost all of the comments here are about bitcoin generally. While that’s not totally surprising, does anyone have any insight on whether or not this S1 reveals interesting data that might inform the public about investing in coin base (eg why they filed an S1)?

Their growth rate is staggering, and they are enormously profitable. I was most stunned by the gross margins. They spend so little to make so much. It illustrates how feverish the crypto investing world is.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#448

Post by lynx234 »

vinay_ys wrote: post #426
thinkmassive wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What users of the Bitcoin network own are private keys. These allow you to control corresponding entries on the Bitcoin ledger by signing transactions and broadcasting them to the Bitcoin network. Signed transactions can even be shared through other channels, to be broadcast at a later time for settlement, like a check. This is how the Lightning Network functions. Keys can be held in many forms, including purely in s…

Also almost all governments have KYC/AML/CFT regulations that apply to crypto exchanges as well. And governments can monitor, control, sanction your bitcoin transactions by controlling these exchanges through regulations. When the local currency becomes unstable and the local government becomes unstable, one should assume access to crypto exchanges like coinbase will be very very hard.

this is where decentralized exchanges like Uniswap come into play, no KYC, no account

Re: Coinbase S-1

#449

Post by [deleted] »

cactus2093 wrote: post #176
arnaudsm wrote: post #44

Many have forgotten why we used cryptocurrencies in the first place. The original promise of cryptocurrency was to become independent from banks. In the end CoinBase (like every exchange) is a great product, but just a bank. It's centralized, hackable, has economies of scale, etc.

Don’t speak for everyone there, “we” don’t all have the same reason. I like Bitcoin as a diversification for being a “better version of gold” - it has the scarcity and you can physically own it but it is much easier to store and send anywhere in the world if needed. These properties also mean that in a pinch, if you live in an unstable society or one facing high inflation it can work as an alternative financial syste…

[deleted]

Re: Coinbase S-1

#450

Post by wpietri »

bhupy wrote: post #397
wpietri wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The distinction between "central bank" and "ordinary bank" is only meaningful because of tight regulation and a central banking system that constrains ordinary banks. The whole reason we have a strong central bank is because we tried the alternative before and it worked terribly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_banking

That constraint is only really required because paper money can be minted in a way that BTC (or gold) cannot. That's why the distinction is relevant in the case of cryptocurrency. The overall point is that the ship has mostly sailed with regards to whether Bitcoin can be a deflationary store of value like gold. The question now is who will provide the vaults to hold the new "gold bars". These vault providers are not…

I am always entertained by the line of argument that goes, "Do we know for certain this new twist will be as hugely destructive? If not, what the heck, let's find out!"

Personally, I think the burden of proof goes the other way. Especially when after 12 years of Bitcoin innovation in practice it's so far mainly useful for scams, ransomware, market manipulation, money laundering, and other kinds of light financial crime. (Plus speculation of course, but there were plenty of options for that before.) If hobbyists want to speedrun reinventing financial regulation that's ok by me, but I'd rather they do it without the collateral damage.

That's especially obvious in contrast with actual digital money efforts like MPesa, which have real user bases, scale perfectly well, and aren't ongoing ecological disasters.

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