Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

forbes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

441–450 of 1001 posts

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#441

Post by tonyedgecombe »

trident5000 wrote: post #328
misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

[flagged]

Except you haven't had a socialist government so you can't really blame socialists for the problems you have.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#442

Post by johnzim »

sandworm101 wrote: post #364
bun_at_work wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't entirely true. The US subsidizes military costs for all of our allies. It costs a lot, and a huge amount of funds go to that. There are parts that are like jobs programs, and the contractors intentionally drive up costs as part of their business model, but there are also real expenses to maintaining stability across the parts of the world where our military operates.

>>> The US subsidizes military costs for all of our allies. Speaking as one of those allies... not really. Often times US allies spend money they really don't want to in order to keep the US happy. Canada and the UK probably wouldn't have invaded Afghanistan if not for their obligations as US allies. That certainly wasn't cheap. Canada is soon to replace its fighter fleet. Will it buy to cheaper Saab Grippen? Or will…

This argument would be more persuasive if more countries actually met their recommended NATO spend. In reality it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Take for instance Germany. The federal republic increased their spend to $63.8b last year but that's still a shortfall of ~$27b relative to what a 2% spend would be.

Aggressive estimates (above official estimates) of the UK's (a similar sized ally) spending on Afghanistan in 2011m put the total figure at $26b for 10 years.

The cumulative shortfall in NATO contributions for Germany over that period is more than 10 times greater than the entire invasion and continued operations in Afghanistan during that period.

(edit: grammar and dollar signs)

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#443

Post by LegitShady »

grecy wrote: post #213
LegitShady wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many countries have far worse standards of care than the US. I live in Canada, and waited more than a year for a specialist. It took me 2 years to find a family doctor with decent reviews who was accepting patients . I needed an MRI once and the wait was measured in months. I waited four months for just a cortisone shot, before the pandemic. I'm not claiming one system is better than another. Certainly if you're weal…

> Many countries have far worse standards of care than the US. I'll need a citation for that. When a country has 29 million people without health insurance [1], and medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy, I think it's safe to say the average standard of care is way, way lower than Canada, Australia, Germany, etc. where literally every person gets care. [1] https://www.kff.org/uninsured/issue-brief/key-f…

I think you have to actively ignore the last three sentences that I wrote to think this is a reasonable reply.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#444

Post by the_af »

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #379
misiti3780 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, I don't mean killing hundreds of thousands of people was good, but it did end WWII, and presumably saved lives that would have been lost via a land invasion (US + USSR)

This is far from how I learned it. I am not saying either of us is right, just noticing how interesting it is that historical facts taught differently completely change a person's perception. We will probably never learn the truth as none of us were there. I have always been told that Japan was already ready to surrender and that dropping the bombs was simply the first step into the cold war -- a bombing to show stre…

> This is far from how I learned it

I'm also not from the US, and I was similarly surprised when I found their position on this piece of history differs with how it's learned in pretty much the rest of the world.

Speak to someone outside the US about the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki: most, if not all, will say it was a terrible thing, almost a war crime. In some (Western!) countries the consensus is that it was a crime, but because it was perpetrated by the victor, it went unpunished. We outside of the US are also aware of the dissenters who spoke against the bombing, how it wasn't necessary, etc.

Speak about the same with someone from the US: more likely than not, they'll admit it was a terrible thing, but emphasize it was necessary to win the war, how the Japanese were fanatical and weren't going to surrender without heavy bloodshed, etc.

If anything, it's an interesting exploration of national perceptions...

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#445

Post by bumby »

nerdponx wrote: post #398
notional wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than just a jobs program too. It's a reelection plan for senators/house members. Look at what states and districts get these big DoD contracts and then look at what committees the congressmen/women are sitting on. They approve plans that benefit them then direct the funds right into their districts so they can campaign on it. I mean it's not the worst form of corruption but it's pretty shitty when you reali…

But imagine if we put people to work building useful stuff instead of useless stuff. Power grid infrastructure, new bridges, new rail lines, etc.

Why do you think the current prioritization exists?

The cynic in me thinks it has to do with power projection and the economy.

The less cynical part of me wonders if it’s related to a cognitive bias that over-weights threats from rival “tribes” and the need to ensure stability

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#446

Post by edoceo »

nerdponx wrote: post #398
notional wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than just a jobs program too. It's a reelection plan for senators/house members. Look at what states and districts get these big DoD contracts and then look at what committees the congressmen/women are sitting on. They approve plans that benefit them then direct the funds right into their districts so they can campaign on it. I mean it's not the worst form of corruption but it's pretty shitty when you reali…

But imagine if we put people to work building useful stuff instead of useless stuff. Power grid infrastructure, new bridges, new rail lines, etc.

Boring! How am I supposed to get reelected and campaign contributions without cool dream pictures? Infrastructure is just something you say, Pork is what you do.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#447

Post by mikece »

thereddaikon wrote: post #411
mikece wrote: post #347

To quote Pierre Spray, one of the "Fighter Mafia" who had a hand in the design of the F-15 and drove the design of the F-16, the F-35 has been a massive success. What's not asked is "What is the mission of the F-35?" and in Spray's opinion the mission of the F-35 has been to drive funding to Lockheed.

Pierre Spray is also a luddite who vehemently rejects the concept of a multirole fighter. The F-16 he advocated for is not anywhere close to the actual F-16. If it were up to him the USAF fighter force would consist of low tech pure dogfighters that didn't have radars or long range missiles. To him the F-5 is the pinnacle of fighter technology. His and the rest of the fighter mafia's extreme views are not popular wit…

Preferring a fighter that doesn't rely on electronics isn't the same as being a luddite. Also, the state of electronics since the early/mid 70s has changed significantly: specifically they have become much lighter, compact, and reliable (none of the three were true when 45 years ago).

The main design driver shaping the F-16 was Boyd's energy–maneuverability theory. A major criticism of Sprey is that the F-15, which was crap according to Boyd's math is undefeated in combat. This is true but it also hasn't gone up against the best opposition in the world either. Boyd, Sprey, and the rest of the Fighter Mafia have been hated for decades in the Pentagon but history is showing that their predictions are accurate. One thing which is too classified to know at the moment is whether advances in missile technology have finally gotten to the point where electronics and firing first matter more than the ACM abilities of the pilot and the airframe to which they are strapped.

Either way, dismissing Spray as a luddite is an incorrect statement.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#448

Post by greedo »

misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

I would put up designing an mRNA vaccine in less than a year to show that we can make technological progress when the desire is present.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#449

Post by asah »

misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

COVID vaccine had entered the chat. 6 months vs 4-10+ years previously, and 4+ vaccines at once.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#450

Post by mmaunder »

misiti3780 wrote: post #86

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

For more detail on how effective Skunkworks was, read Kelly Johnson's book. It was recommended to me by a buddy at JPL and it's a wonderful view into how they did things on time and below budget on projects like the SR71.

Not an affiliate link: https://www.amazon.com/Kelly-More-Than-Share-All/dp/08747449...

Post reply on HN