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School or Prison

schoolprison.com

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Re: School or Prison

#441

Post by cbozeman »

escape_goat wrote: post #439
cbozeman wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL, no... "lived experience" is exactly the same as "an anecdote". There's literally zero difference. Its a different way of saying, "a story". Anecdotes are interrogable as well. Hell, its in the goddamn definition of the word. an·ec·dote /ˈanəkˌdōt/ noun a short amusing or interesting story about a real incident or person. Your key word in that definition is "real".

Your condescension really places your comment beyond any hope of redemption, but in a different context I might have explained to you what the word 'interrogable' meant with relative kindness, which of course is not going to happen, now. If HN had a block button I would use it.

Or maybe you were just wrong and your ego can't handle it?

I'm glad it doesn't have a block button. Its for cowards who can't defend their points. I would grill you just as hard if you were sitting across the table from me at dinner and said this kind of nonsense.

Lived experience and an anecdote are the same. Its a single data point and more often than not, single data points are almost never indicative of what's actually occurring.

And as far as what the word "interrogable" means... 1) you're arrogant to assume I don't realize its the adjective form of interrogate and 2) I knew you meant, "Something that can be questioned." Lived experience CAN be questioned. Just because we live in a world full of people who think they have the right to never feel uncomfortable doesn't mean otherwise.

Re: School or Prison

#442

Post by ineedasername »

em-bee wrote: post #398
ineedasername wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make it a prison: neither another student nor the teacher can step in and learn the material for your child. I don't know what you think would be an appropriate option there. Also, you may have a job where none of your responsibilities are unique to you, but that's not often the case outside of some types of shift work. If I take a vacation or sick days, I have catching up to do. No one is going to step…

montessori designed a way of teaching, where each child learns at their own pace. missed time simply never causes a problem that way

That doesn't mean a student doesn't miss something when they're away from school. Self-paced just changes the timing. The dynamic is not comparable to a work environment where someone else might be able to do the work for you. No one can learn for your child when they are away, and that fact doesn't change with less rigidly structured Montessori schools.

Re: School or Prison

#443

Post by escape_goat »

cbozeman wrote: post #441
escape_goat wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your condescension really places your comment beyond any hope of redemption, but in a different context I might have explained to you what the word 'interrogable' meant with relative kindness, which of course is not going to happen, now. If HN had a block button I would use it.

Or maybe you were just wrong and your ego can't handle it? I'm glad it doesn't have a block button. Its for cowards who can't defend their points. I would grill you just as hard if you were sitting across the table from me at dinner and said this kind of nonsense. Lived experience and an anecdote are the same. Its a single data point and more often than not, single data points are almost never indicative of what's ac…

It's clear that you didn't really read what I wrote very carefully.

Re: School or Prison

#444

Post by ThePadawan »

danielheath wrote: post #106
ThePadawan wrote: post #9

I did quite well by measuring "overall area of ground level windows".

See also "Is the front door designed to let one person through at a time, or many". School buildings move their entire populations through the entrance in the space of 10 minutes. Prisons are more-or-less entirely designed to prevent exactly that from happening.

Wow, now thinking of it, my high school was awful at that.

At least it had three different exits.

Re: School or Prison

#445

Post by Izkata »

nkrisc wrote: post #190
hombre_fatal wrote: post #162

In one of the largest high schools in Texas, we weren't allowed to leave campus, we couldn't even take our lunch out of the double doors and eat our sandwich outside. It's something I absolutely despise about our contemporary culture. I live in Latin America now and envy the kids for getting 45 minutes free at lunch time to hang out outside, socialize, buy from the street vendors that will gather at that time, maybe…

Anecdotally, I've heard of that more at suburban schools where you pretty much have to access and leave the campus via car. At my high school in Chicago (2003-2007, ~2,000 students) we were free to leave the campus at any time and often spent lunch at a nearby hot dog stand or sitting in the park and hanging out. The only restriction was that you had to re-enter through specific entries so they could check school IDs…

Yeah, I went to highschool in a suburb where the walk home was around an hour (which I know because it was tradition to do so after finals), so you pretty much had to drive or take the bus. Grades 9 and 10 weren't allowed outside at all, grades 11 and 12 were allowed out during lunch (but as far as I remember weren't allowed off of school grounds).

Re: School or Prison

#446

Post by souprock »

runarberg wrote: post #407
ascar wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could we please not try to prohibit critique and discussion just because someone doesn't agree with it? Open discussion and well founded criticism is what makes me read the comments. I actually was searching for a response to GP claims about prison not being a deterrent and if nobody had mentioned it would commented it myself. To add to the arguments: GP even contradicts himself by stating how bad prison is and that…

In behavioral science it is well documented that punishment is an ineffective driver for behavioral modification. In fact, for punishment to work at all it has to be consistent and immediate. Prison is neither. So our best theory of behavioral modification states that prisons is not a deterrent for crime, nor is there any evidence for it in the records. All the while prisons are an inhumane and terrible way to treat…

Car thieves don't steal cars while in prison. Bank robbers don't rob banks while in prison. Some crime may continue within the walls of the prison, but the world outside is protected. If a person would commit crimes for 40 years, keeping that person in prison for 20 years is a 50% crime reduction.

Re: School or Prison

#447

Post by Izkata »

felipemnoa wrote: post #336
Kluny wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 5'7" and 130lbs (so not fat) and I definitely can't go four hours between meals. I get very angry.

>> I get very angry Freudian slip?

This is a phenomena common enough to have its own word: hangry

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hangry

..and I just learned the word is over a century old, it's definitely not new slang.

Re: School or Prison

#448

Post by souprock »

luma wrote: post #415
throwaway998662 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah completely agree that's what it's designed for, but to what end? What goal do we think the punishment achieves? The only useful thing about it IMO is preventing truly dangerous/sick people from interacting with the rest of society. Most prisoners are not that

Wikipedia[1] lays out a list of common justifications for imprisonment that feels accurate: rehabilitation, deterrence, incapacitation, and retribution. Different societies may prioritize each of those differently. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest the US has gone long on the "retribution" angle in their approach to criminal justice. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison#Theories_of_punishment_...

Something got left off the list, unless "retribution" is supposed to cover it. When people see crimes go unpunished, they form lynch mobs. An unsatisfied angry population is a dangerous thing to have.

Re: School or Prison

#449

Post by lambda_obrien »

throwaway201103 wrote: post #155
lambda_obrien wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most prisoners don't want to escape, or cause harm, they just want to finish the term and go home and move on. I'd say you could have the honor system (unlocked doors) for 95 percent of prisoners, by letting them know if they escape they'll go to a more secure and less free prison. Then you make prison a place to learn new skills and get treatment for addictions and therapy, and you'll actually see some improvement i…

We already have prisons like that for low-risk, nonviolent offenders. They are called minimum security or "country club" prisons. We also have home detention.

In America that's so rare it's nonexistent. A few rich white collar criminals might get home detention, but for most people who have the option, it's too expensive, with fees of hundreds of dollars a month or more. Country club prisons aren't a real thing, that's just talking points for the "tough on crime" politicians who want to make prison sound fun.

Re: School or Prison

#450

Post by bettem »

ineedasername wrote: post #138
bettem wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hope the teacher wasn't in a bad mood or that 3 other kids hadn't needed to pee in the last half hour, meeting some mental quota the teacher has for the appropriate # of people that should have to use the toilet during a given period of time. This is a fairly reductive statement. Dealing with children is incredibly taxing and difficult. Teachers are [in my country] underpaid and under-appreciated and I believe this…

The stress level and difficulty of teaching (while accurate statements) are not relevant to this issue. You can't excuse poor treatment of the biological needs of students simply because you have a very difficult job. My comment was also not a reductive statement when I've been told "no" when I ask to go to the bathroom, or told "3 people have already gone to the bathroom, you'll have to wait until next period." Both…

I may not have been clear with my point that my understanding of the difficulty of teaching in primary (elementary in America?) schools is the children aren’t rationale at that age.

I sympathise with your situation that a child peeing in their pants is not ok under any circumstances. My point was that’s it’s difficult, nigh impossible, to discern between a child copying another’s behaviour and a child in need. This is simply a fact of having 30+ 8 year olds acting as non-rational actors in a classroom setting. This is the point of difference to your original college statement that you could now be considered to act rationally and therefore don’t need to ask permission.

Finally regarding pay, some quick searches show the median income in America to be $60k. My point was that this is indeed undervalued in my opinion when compared to other Industries. You may disagree on that regard, but it’s my opinion understanding what I do about their expected output.

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