My Experience at Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: My Experience at Apple

#441

Post by ta1339 » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 12:46 AM UTC

kmonsen wrote: post #269

meekrohprocess wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. I've worked at other FAANG companies which had these sorts of posts written about them, and I've witnessed plenty of situations that I would call "abusive". But what I read in this article was beyond the pale. I never felt like anybody adjacent to any of my roles might have cause to fear for their physical safety. Reviews were used as political tools and occasional sources of psychological abuse, su…

This is fairly obviously true, FAANG's are large companies so lots of strange things happen even if they on average are great. I worked at Google for 10 years, and had 10 great years there with very little negative to say. That was true for almost anyone I knew. But there was a mailing list "yes at Google" for these kind of stories so other can see that it does happen even if most of us thought it was great. Most of…

I've never read anything even half as terrible as this story on Yes At Google. I'm not saying shitty things don't happen, but I'd like to believe that such shittiness would not fly at the G.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#442

Post by musicale » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 12:49 AM UTC

I think Apple, like several other notable tech companies, has a ton of great developers and engineers, and a lot of really bad managers (and a few good ones.) As in most tech companies, employees have no power vs. management, and HR exists to protect the company from liability. (And good luck keeping your job if you try to, say, organize a union.)

A bummer about Apple as well is that because it is such a popular company, largely due to its well-regarded and often exciting and innovative products, there are always lots of people lined up ready to take your place. As a result, they can get away with paying in prestige (rather than a fair market wage) and demanding excessive (and anti-productive) time commitments.

Perhaps it's changed recently, but the myth of dual career ladders has been a major problem at many companies; basically to increase your salary it's almost mandatory to go into management, or to leave for another company. HR and management will point to highly paid individual contributors, but it's largely a pyramid with very few people at the upper ranks, and they do their best to hide and obfuscate the pay scale.

Many tech companies also love college hires because they usually lack the ability to negotiate pay, have few outside responsibilities such as children or a spouse, and often lack a concept of work-life balance. After they quit due to burnout they are easily replaced.

I still think it's nuts that Tim Cook wants his team to have calls on Sunday nights. There's really nothing that can't wait until Monday morning - it's just a stupid bit of the culture of anti-productive overwork and demands for proof of loyalty to a company that will never repay it.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#443

Post by resynth1943 » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 12:52 AM UTC

An-apple-anon wrote: post #440

Deleted for revealing potentially self incriminating information.

"One day I went to use the woman restroom my “iBuddy” was there. She told me “die!” and slammed the door in my face."

This bit made me suspicious of the whole thing.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#444

Post by djaouen » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 12:52 AM UTC

If Apple doesn't remedy this situation, I will no longer purchase their products.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#445

Post by person_of_color » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 12:53 AM UTC

exApple-anon wrote: post #9

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Unlike others, I actually find this story fairly believable. When I first joined Apple, straight out of college - a good program, top three in the country - I was abused similarly. I joined a team that was on a project behind schedule. Our manager was a brusque, no-nonsense sort of dude. But he clearly had anger problems. On the team were 2 senior engineers, me, and a junior e…

What company? I want to apply there!

Re: My Experience at Apple

#446

Post by slmjkdbtl » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 12:59 AM UTC

zcw100 wrote: post #161

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #80

For anyone experiencing workplace harassment, this article is a great example of what not to do. Instead, document everything happening to you with evidence, speak with HR about incidents as they arise, and if they don't take action, seek legal counsel. Doing anything else will paint you in a bad light.

You've clearly never had this happen to you. Go ahead, document everything, it's not going to matter. That's not how this works. If you do that they'll either say, "Ok, I see what you've got there. But that's not what we're here to discuss. We're here to discuss your negative attitude" or they can look at your documentation and say, "So what were you charging the time you were doing all this documentation to?", or, "…

I haven't been in this kind of situation, but I'm curious if the HR's goal is to help the company, not individuals, how is protecting abusers and ignoring negative workplace dynamics helping the company?

Re: My Experience at Apple

#447

Post by antiterra » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 1:03 AM UTC

ryanSrich wrote: post #434

exApple-anon wrote: post #9

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Unlike others, I actually find this story fairly believable. When I first joined Apple, straight out of college - a good program, top three in the country - I was abused similarly. I joined a team that was on a project behind schedule. Our manager was a brusque, no-nonsense sort of dude. But he clearly had anger problems. On the team were 2 senior engineers, me, and a junior e…

Maybe I’m just too jaded, but this is how I assume all big tech companies operate. The people that win get the results, even if it means being a massive piece of shit and treating your employees like garbage. In fact, I would wager that not a single VP or higher at any major tech co isn’t a self-serving, backstabbing asshole. You simply don’t get into those types of positions on merit alone. You need to play the game…

The experience can vary wildly at those companies, sometimes while still holding the same role. I’ve seen people shifted from amazing transformative mentoring managers to gaslighting managers that counted lines of code as a key metric in performance reviews right before directly claiming they didn’t in team meetings.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#448

Post by rubicon33 » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 1:08 AM UTC

> The new officemate had previous harassment history at Apple as well as criminal history and arrest. She took pride that she does what she wants, and nobody can do anything about it

"previous harassment history at Apple as well as criminal history and arrest" .... I am really skeptical of this. Does anyone have insider information to corroborate such a claim?

Re: My Experience at Apple

#449

Post by microtherion » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 1:10 AM UTC

boxmonster wrote: post #209

exApple-anon wrote: post #9

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. Unlike others, I actually find this story fairly believable. When I first joined Apple, straight out of college - a good program, top three in the country - I was abused similarly. I joined a team that was on a project behind schedule. Our manager was a brusque, no-nonsense sort of dude. But he clearly had anger problems. On the team were 2 senior engineers, me, and a junior e…

I find it totally believable that a Muslim would get harrassed given the current toxic political climate.

It's hard to know what's going on in every corner of a company as large as Apple, but open harassment certainly would not fly in our particular organization. Our team alone has engineers belonging to 4 different religions I know of (and obviously quite a few not identifying with any particular religion), and I've seen at least Christians, Hindus, and Muslims promoted to management.

Re: My Experience at Apple

#450

Post by refulgentis » Sat, Jan 02, 2021, 1:13 AM UTC

alexc9 wrote: post #379

romanovcode wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple comes off as a happy family friendly company, when in reality behind the scenes it’s a rule by fear culture. Just like any other company.

Not really. Worked for 5 companies, 2 were ruled by fear culture (including an explicit stack ranking of employees every 2 quarters, with the bottom ones being fired), one by desperation, one by... inertia maybe. The 5th is Google. Still can't figure out what it's ruled by exactly, but absolutely no fear, yet it mostly works. That's why I'm sticking around, I guess. I've moved teams and orgs quite a bit, so I don't t…

+1, if anything, its frustratingly the opposite from my perspective (i.e. its hard to find peers who want to dig into things, the SWE is the center of the universe, personal lack of interest is enough to refuse work)