‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#441

Post by wpietri » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 4:12 AM UTC

exogeny wrote: post #373

nilkn wrote: post #338

[Thank you for all your advice -- it's greatly appreciated. I've edited this post since it included a few personal details that I don't want permanently attached to my account on here. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.]

If you want my instant feedback, while I understand that you're not getting the quantity of interviews you'd like, I'd caution you against thinking of Coinbase as a "hot" company. That designation would have been true years ago, when the work/reward balance would have been much more in your favor. Instead, right now you're going to work startup hours for less salary than FAANG and a truly miniscule and non-commensura…

Excellent points. I'd also add that the best place to take a startup job is where societal value generation is high and rapidly growing. That way you get lots of revenue and societal support. In contrast "crypto" is a space whose demonstrated value creation is very limited, and has been stuck at that level for years. Regulators have broadly gone from "let's see what happens" to cracking down on the many excesses of the space. And that's before we look at what the new administration will do.

I can see why investors might put money in Coinbase; they can place bets on many horses. But for a full time job? I'd advise friends to work elsewhere.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#442

Post by xenihn » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 4:12 AM UTC

adjkant wrote: post #392

leppr wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it difficult to conceive how one could work at/manage a mainstream cryptocurrency company and be racist. Both empirically (it's the most multicultural tech scene I ever witnessed), and in principles (one of the core tenets of crypto is precisely eliminating discrimination), crypto would be among the most counter productive fields for a racist to spend their time on. Of course I'm not discounting the fact that…

I think it's helpful here to examine the conception of a racist. Most racists don't identify as such and have a racist agenda they consciously act on. In these cases, it's baked in through various experiences into the subconscious, and rationalized away in many ways. Maybe it's eugenics, maybe it's media bias, maybe it's simply a personal preference, and they think they don't let it affect their decisions. > it's the…

>All of this perfectly aligns with finding racism within said company, and the tech industry as a whole.

I don't understanding why you're stopping at the tech industry when it's a problem in every other industry too. I'd go so far as to say it's a problem that permeates every industry in the entire world.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#443

Post by xenihn » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 4:15 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #319

Taek wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is too snarky for my taste but the main thrust of the message is spot on. When I've taken the time to ask black friends and black professionals in my industry about their experience, it's very clear that they deal with an extra level of complications and hardships compared to me. And it's not "my one black friend was a victim of racism this one time." It's just generally harder to get a job. It's just ge…

Same! For instance, it never occurred to me that Black men have to be especially careful about expressing frustration, because white coworkers find any expression of anger from a Black man threatening. But that's what my neighbor, who also works in tech, told me: that he's basically never allowed to object as forcefully as white coworkers, because otherwise he'll get HR complaints. There's probably a whole lot of shi…

Who would be filing these complaints? Do you think they would primarily be filed by men, women, or an equal mix of both? And do you believe it would exclusively be white people regardless of the gender distribution?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#444

Post by secondcoming » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 4:16 AM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #275

adjkant wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many companies regularly work within mainstream political action such as LGTBQ+ rights, data privacy, homelessness, local housing or public works, and children's orgs such as Big Brother Big Sister. While these vary in controversiality, relevancy, and apolitical nature, it's not at all uncommon to see companies working in these areas (and others unlisted). Often companies grow into them along with size and profits, s…

If Wired's reporting is accurate ( https://www.wired.com/story/turmoil-black-lives-matter-polit... ), Coinbase did try to ride the line, but a bunch of activists demanded for Armstrong to publicly chant the slogan and eventually went on strike until he did.

This series explains it all

https://youtu.be/p5Wny9TstEM

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#445

Post by treis » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 4:16 AM UTC

slg wrote: post #79

zpeti wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the CEO refusing to align with far left politics? Whether you think that is good or bad, that could well be the reason for them leaving, but it doesn't actually mean that there was overt racism.

Can you expand on what you mean by "far left politics"? Reminder, this happened in late 2018 and early 2019. It was before this year's round of Black Lives Matter protests. It was also before Coinbase issued its no politics edict. I am really struggling to think of what "far left politics" you are referring to here that would be important enough to the Black employees of Coinbase that it results in 75% of them leavin…

Most other tech firms make a specific effort to recruit Black people, promote them, and support causes Black people support. Coinbase's position is that while they support those things they want to focus on their cryptocurrency mission. Given that, the expected outcome would be 0 Black people working at Coinbase. If you were black, you'd much rather work for the firms actively trying to recruit and promote you.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#446

Post by xenihn » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 4:19 AM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #278

worker767424 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I work at a FAANG and a massive percentage of employees are rabidly anti-racist, and wouldn't stand for anything like that. I get nervous when I make a comment about Zoom being insecure because it's Chinese around Chinese coworkers, and I can at least point to its bad track record on security and how Five Eyes members are treating Huawei.

I'm not sure I fully understand your point, but it might be worth adjusting your language a little bit to account for a quirk of our language(in that Chinese could refer to the nationality, or the government): I assume your problem with Zoom is its association with the CCP , and not just that it is merely Chinese.

Conspiracy theory time: That's not a quirk with our language, there's a deliberate lack of distinction between the country and the people. During the Cold War, you could say "Soviet" instead of "Russian" to clearly demarcate between the nation and the nationality. We don't have a modern equivalent for the PRC, and that's because someone wants it that way. It'd be trivial for a new term to be pushed through media, but it's not being done, even though we clearly need one.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#447

Post by CryptoPunk » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 4:21 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #436

roenxi wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starting with the assumption that they are racist, that is the tip of a nasty iceburg. Starting with the assumption it is a pretty normal company, that is a list mostly of stuff that nobody should care about. If someone can articulate what the HR complaints are about then that might be evidence. But complaints to HR are expected - that is why HR gets hired. They are there to deal with HR complaints. And read resumes.…

Racism is endemic in the US. It was founded with the notion that black people were basically livestock. We've slowly and fitfully moved away from that, but the problem is far from over. With any company we should assume that both personal and systemic bias are present. Which is why well-run companies work to counter that.

Completely absurd. There is absolutely no evidence that "racism is endemic in the US". These kinds of blanket characterizations, are baseless fearmongering, and are incredibly irresponsible.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#448

Post by bArray » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 4:23 AM UTC

I've spoken to multiple people employed at tech companies that believe they were 'token' hires, I can summarize their thoughts as thinking the situation was "awful". Biased hiring practices are in quite a few cases hurting the people they aim to help.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#449

Post by adjkant » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 4:25 AM UTC

xenihn wrote: post #442

adjkant wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's helpful here to examine the conception of a racist. Most racists don't identify as such and have a racist agenda they consciously act on. In these cases, it's baked in through various experiences into the subconscious, and rationalized away in many ways. Maybe it's eugenics, maybe it's media bias, maybe it's simply a personal preference, and they think they don't let it affect their decisions. > it's the…

>All of this perfectly aligns with finding racism within said company, and the tech industry as a whole. I don't understanding why you're stopping at the tech industry when it's a problem in every other industry too. I'd go so far as to say it's a problem that permeates every industry in the entire world.

All of this is within the context of the "apolitical" statement by Coinbase and those who engaged with the post, which was by and large only the tech industry. I'm not looking to go on a full analysis of "racism in the world" in HN comments today lols

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#450

Post by CryptoPunk » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 4:26 AM UTC

i-write-comment wrote: post #430

2-tpg wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What lies? > Floyd was a career criminal unworthy of sainthood or role modeling. Floyd was arrested for a home invasion, where a 1-year-old baby was present, and he threatened a woman to tell her where the money and drugs was hidden, by pressing a gun to her stomach. After that he was arrested and processed 8 times for crimes related to drugs and theft. The day of his arrest he tried to pay with a counterfeit bill. A…

> At least give me a "fair" trial: Show me where I lied Just one example: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/25/blog-posti... > As evidence, it cites comments from Andrew Baker, the chief medical examiner in Hennepin County, who performed an autopsy on Floyd. But Baker didn’t say that Floyd died of a drug overdose. > The medical examiner’s office ruled that the manner of Floyd’s death was homicide. > The…

"The Hennepin County medical examiner said that Floyd bloodwork showed a “fatal level of fentanyl,” according to court documents, but he didn’t say this killed him."

Seems a bit pedantic and disingenuous to say that the examiner didn't attribute the death to an overdose, without providing the above context.

I'm not here to defend the knee-on-the-neck arrest of a handcuffed suspect, but the evidence as it stands holds it as a possibility that he died from the drug use, which still wouldn't justify the completely reckless/inhumane way in which he was restrained.